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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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hello Richard how are you hi Stefan I

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couldn't help noticing when I came into

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the studio today that you're looking a

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little different is that your hair maybe

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the shirt on hang on a second you've

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lost some weight Oh Richard Richard i

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have i've been on a fantastic new

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weight-loss program and yeah I'd feels

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great I look better done I'm if this was

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a podcast everyone would agree yeah but

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yeah a little bit more about that later

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in the show really and your weight loss

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program and you weight loss program is

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high and has to wait to hear babe and

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here we are it's episode 21 of the zone

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21 21 lucky 20 doing at the key to the

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city we should the key for the internet

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I think we should keep the key to the

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miracles of quackery um it's great to be

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back again thank you it's going to be

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it's ever a big show before we start

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thank you for everybody who's been

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subscribing our last show yea which was

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especially with dr. Richard Wiseman was

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our highest rating show yet in terms of

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downloads there so it's a really hard to

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say how many or is that sort of more in

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the realm of tax tax accountants and

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things well I would hope it was in the

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realms of tax accountant we making a lot

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of money but no in the first 24 hours we

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had something approaching the 3,000

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downloads and which was a massive hit

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real I think that's pretty good is he

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good for a relatively new show Eddie's

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and I actually read an article by Seth

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Godin especially big marketing guru on

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the net and he reckons podcasts don't

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work newly I think he's going Kidman I

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think he's right he's kidding no I think

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he's wrong he's totally Rock you're

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right so what are we got happening for

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this this 13th of March another

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fabulously luck each episode Friday the

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13th oh yes another friday the 13 it's

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just phenomenal what a year we're

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talking to Martin rich dog now our

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reporter Kylie Sturgis will be chatting

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to Martin he runs a course up in

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Queensland all about critical thinking

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critical thinking and university so

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that's interesting ok so with critical

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thinking to do people get the thinker's

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get upset that you're criticizing them

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they're very critical no we're critical

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of the thin critical of them yeah it is

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it's the obviously it's done in

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constructively I hope so I hope so too

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well that'll be good to find out if and

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of course we do have Iran's its grain of

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salt segment don't we we do all that

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thank goodness for that is a great

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little segment it is very popular too as

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is the roundup

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with Michael wala Han oh yes arrange

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current affairs yeah the think tank of

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course are not forgetting no never

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forgive never ever forget to raise your

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reports yes Andy and what's she doing it

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on this week some bizarre quackery

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called life wave life wave life and way

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life well what is it like is it a

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surfing thing I wish it was it's a

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magical patch but we'll find out more

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about that later excellent oh here we go

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I think we should just get on with the

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teaching critical thinking is something

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I find to be very important and it's

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good to see other people have a similar

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mind here Kylie Sturgis talks to Martin

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bridge stock from Griffith University if

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we can ever show like paranormal state

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on television a program which promotes

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the idea that university students who

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don't critically accept paranormal

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claims then logically there should be a

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more skeptical show to the skeptic state

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we may have the answer at dr. Martin

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bridge stock who is a senior lecturer at

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Griffith University School of Science in

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2006 dr. bridge stock was the winner of

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the Australian skeptics prize for

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critical thinking for his course on

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scepticism science and the power normal

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an original course prompting students to

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think critically about the paranormal

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and it has been running for six years he

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is the author of creationism an

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Australian perspective and was recently

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published in The Skeptical Inquirer on

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skeptical ethics what should we

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investigate dr. bridge top took some

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time to talk to us at last year's

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convention at Wagga Wagga one of the

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great things that I like about the TV

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show paranormal state apart from the

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fact that it shows us by bad example

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about how running around with a camera

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and using a heat-seeking device really

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doesn't show us much about ghosts is

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that the idea of paranormal state a

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university which is investigating ghosts

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means that there must be logically

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another sign a skeptic state so that's

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why I'm here today talking to dr. Martin

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reached over Griffith University who I

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hope might be one day the instigator of

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a skeptic station so not this job its

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authenticity thanks great to be here

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cutting right uh what's it like to be

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teaching the course that you're doing

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you are currently researching the

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efficacy of course looking at skepticism

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and critical thinking with undergraduate

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Zachary

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what's it like it's almost as though the

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students have come to life normally I go

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into the lecture theatre and I tell them

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things that I meant it down and they

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noted down we'll go for coffee in this

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course I start to tell them things and

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hands go up and there are arguments and

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counter-arguments then the family bring

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me stuff to contradict what I said as a

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last lecture it is extremely exhausting

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extremely tiring and totally

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exhilarating because you see them then

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beginning to use your ideas and run with

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them and develop it and make them part

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of their own understanding and that is

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one of the most exhilarating things a

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teacher can possibly yeah I certainly

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agree over there having experienced on a

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small scale that myself with high

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schoolers so here we are with

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undergraduates why why should it be so

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important for young people in this

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particular age group to be started to be

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challenged in this route way well there

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is the old-fashioned idea of education

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which is the students sit there and you

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poor education into their minds and they

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finally emerge educate the old muggins

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of theory which I doubt anybody else to

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talk seriously but we often act as that

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we did now it's quite clear we've got a

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modern world in which knowledge is being

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made obsolescent at a greater and

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greater round things that we know now 10

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years ends mainly useless or may be out

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of date therefore we've got to do above

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all is to teach young people how to

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understand how to investigate for

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themselves how to criticize knowledge

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and how to come to their own conclusions

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because it's so much acknowledge is

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provisional so much acknowledges

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fallible then they're keeping we've got

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to teach is the skills of comprehension

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and evaluation and that's what of course

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like 90 tempted to do yeah absolutely so

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one of the criticisms I know is how

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skepticism may not be exactly on par

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with critical thinking so why use the

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sons of pseudo-scientific and the

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paranormal

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to provide I'm regards skepticism as

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being a subset of critical thinking plus

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one or two other extra elements like

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talking about evidence and in be

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interested in evidence as well and one

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great advantage of talking about the

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paranormal is that it has an enormous

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amount of belief the whole show

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something like eighty percent of the

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community believes in the paranormal and

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therefore people are interested it

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applies to some time of anything are

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interested in and they become interested

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they become involved they come in

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knowing that they're going to learn

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something about an area in which they

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have often a very passionate interest

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and therefore when I begin to show the

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methods and put them through methods of

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thinking independently thinking

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critically there's often a great deal of

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excitement and that excitement sort of

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higher one of most powerful things about

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getting people engaged absolutely I mean

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really in principle all education should

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be like that it should be an exciting

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journey and exciting journey towards

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some kind of understanding but so much

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of it is simply people slogging through

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the motions in order to get a

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qualification at the end of it yeah so

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here's a bit of revitalization

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government your presentation yesterday

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you spoke of the community of practice

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in conjunction with further education

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and exposure to skeptical ideas what is

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community of practice here well this is

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a buzzword it's an educational fact we

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should all be very very skeptical and

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cynical about educational fats as new

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ones come along every few years

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management may or may not as of them

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enthusiastically and then very quite a

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few years later after that they're

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dropped but community of practice like

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most of them does have at least a core

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of common sense the core of sense is

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that if you learn something and then you

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go on and you work with a group of

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people who are actually applying what

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you've learned you're far more likely to

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understand it more deeply and you're far

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more likely to remember it and retain

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your understanding now therefore if I

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can teach people the principles of

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skepticism they go into the seminar

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groups they perhaps apply them to a

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particular case of paranormal claims and

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then you can go on and link them up with

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other skeptics who are actually out

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there in the community doing it

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skeptical investigations are

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implementing skeptical for I have a

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theory that

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they going to probably there's a great

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deal more and retain a great deal more

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understanding and you intend to perhaps

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test the sphere there's not no I'm

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hoping that I can as you know it's quite

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a logistical job evaluating education

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it's easy know if you've got the

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students at the beginning at the end of

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the course but when they've gone out

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into the communities and it gets very

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very difficult indeed but I would hope

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you eventually to do that yes one of the

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things that Marissa Mayer and another

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powerful presenter here at the

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Waterwalker gathering mentioned was when

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she was sending out emails and

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attempting to make contacts regarding

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weight loss claims and eventually

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creating your mjo report she got support

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for medical community and yet do not

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approach psychologists interestingly

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enough so what could psychologists play

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perhaps investigating country

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psychologist perhaps like the online

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pests group perhaps see themselves as

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more powerful forces in terms of

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investigating claims psychology as you

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know come as a spectrum at the one end

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there are scientifically inclined

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psychologies and i don't mean rigorous

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behavior is some rapper others but just

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people who are interested in in

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substantiating their evidence and the

277
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other end there is the very vague very

278
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dreamy introspective psychoanalytical

279
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type now i often find that the

280
00:10:14,210 --> 00:10:11,700
psychologists who tend towards the more

281
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scientific end are more conscious about

282
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the need for evidence more conscious of

283
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possible weaknesses in evidence are more

284
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critical about evidence than our most

285
00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:22,560
scientists and indeed most academics and

286
00:10:26,450 --> 00:10:24,270
thinkers generally so i regard was an

287
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:26,460
extremely valuable resource and yes i

288
00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:28,050
would very much like to work with more

289
00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:30,510
psychologists the slight weakness with

290
00:10:33,980 --> 00:10:32,040
psychologist sister because they are

291
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,990
mainly interested in how people think

292
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:36,000
and how the brain works on everything

293
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:37,890
tends to be a little bit individualistic

294
00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:39,810
and a little bit focused on that rather

295
00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:41,700
than the more extroverted approach of

296
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skepticism which to say okay as these

297
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:45,030
claims about what's going on in the

298
00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:46,530
world let's go and see what's really

299
00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:48,420
going on in our world so but now i

300
00:10:53,450 --> 00:10:50,040
regard psychologist has been potentially

301
00:10:56,490 --> 00:10:53,460
valuable colleagues and allies as I say

302
00:10:58,950 --> 00:10:56,500
as a final point Loretta mentioned that

303
00:11:01,620 --> 00:10:58,960
her Mount Everest as it were whoo-hoo

304
00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:01,630
goal is to have a look at alternative

305
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:04,060
medicine claims and find out more about

306
00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:06,010
the test the efficacy and certainly

307
00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:08,350
challenge those which do not work what's

308
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:11,620
your Mountain Western funnily enough I

309
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:14,260
don't think like that what I think of is

310
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:17,200
I'm going in a general direction that I

311
00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:19,090
rather want to go in our set up this

312
00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:21,190
course I've made it work I tweak it and

313
00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:22,870
I tried to make it work better I would

314
00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:24,550
like to set up another course and then I

315
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:26,020
hope that that one will work better and

316
00:11:29,370 --> 00:11:27,370
then I hope I can link the people from

317
00:11:31,020 --> 00:11:29,380
my course up with communities of

318
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:31,030
practice I can perhaps get a book

319
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:32,650
published but I can gradually go in a

320
00:11:36,270 --> 00:11:34,510
general direction so I don't have a mind

321
00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:36,280
of Mount Everest Elizabeth which is a

322
00:11:40,020 --> 00:11:38,710
Hillary and Tenzing winter when I can

323
00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:40,030
say right we've done the bugger that's

324
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:42,670
it or also to go in yes what I want to

325
00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:44,730
do is to go in one particular direction

326
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:47,020
and then certainly encouraging other

327
00:11:50,430 --> 00:11:48,850
people host direction so I encourage as

328
00:11:52,050 --> 00:11:50,440
many people as possible absolutely

329
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:52,060
there's been great this weekend actually

330
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:53,410
to see the group of people who are

331
00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:54,760
actually doing things people like

332
00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:56,350
yourself cutting people like the RET

333
00:11:59,340 --> 00:11:57,430
American so on that's been very

334
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:59,350
encouraging indeed yeah so here's to

335
00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:00,880
putting a community of practice actually

336
00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:02,860
etiquette with some efficacy into

337
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:08,740
practice absolutely okay dr. Martin

338
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:10,210
broodstock will have a new book out this

339
00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:12,250
year from Oxford University Press and

340
00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:14,230
you can find out more about his work and

341
00:12:18,690 --> 00:12:16,600
its course skepticism science and the

342
00:12:31,830 --> 00:12:18,700
paranormal at the group of university

343
00:12:39,310 --> 00:12:31,840
website let's all take this with a grain

344
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:42,020
hello this is a Rancic of taking life

345
00:12:47,660 --> 00:12:46,050
with a grain of salt in 1955 glenn doman

346
00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:47,670
established the Institute's for the

347
00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:50,430
achievement of human potential domin a

348
00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:52,470
physical therapist believed his work

349
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:54,300
with disabled children and in particular

350
00:12:58,610 --> 00:12:56,100
the successes he had experienced with

351
00:13:00,320 --> 00:12:58,620
children who he called brain injured had

352
00:13:02,570 --> 00:13:00,330
given him insight into how the brain can

353
00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:02,580
be developed and children be made to

354
00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:06,390
achieve their true potential under the

355
00:13:11,270 --> 00:13:08,700
umbrella term of brain injured domin

356
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:11,280
included the following brain damaged

357
00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:14,090
mentally mentally deficient

358
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:17,280
cerebral palsied epileptic autistic

359
00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:20,880
athetoid hyperactive attention deficit

360
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:23,190
disorder developmentally delayed and

361
00:13:29,450 --> 00:13:26,220
downs child I will refer to that list

362
00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:29,460
later in the talk dominance methods

363
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,260
included a raft of physical activities

364
00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:33,120
such as crawling and rhythmic

365
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:35,460
manipulation of body parts as well as

366
00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:38,250
sensory stimulation the system was based

367
00:13:42,830 --> 00:13:40,470
on intensive one-on-one work that would

368
00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:42,840
generally require one parent to work

369
00:13:49,190 --> 00:13:46,830
with a child full-time starting in 1964

370
00:13:51,620 --> 00:13:49,200
in a series of books titled the gentle

371
00:13:53,630 --> 00:13:51,630
revolution domin and the institutes for

372
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:53,640
the achievement of human potential have

373
00:13:58,340 --> 00:13:55,770
been aiming to assist well children to

374
00:13:59,420 --> 00:13:58,350
also achieve their true potential books

375
00:14:01,340 --> 00:13:59,430
that are supposed to increase your

376
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:01,350
child's ability in maths reading

377
00:14:05,630 --> 00:14:02,970
swimming and more have been published

378
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:05,640
all based on variations of the methods

379
00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:08,850
used for disabled children if all that

380
00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:10,950
is not encouraging enough it is also

381
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:12,900
worth noting that dolmens work was based

382
00:14:17,510 --> 00:14:15,210
to a significant extent on the work of

383
00:14:18,770 --> 00:14:17,520
temple Fay was head of the Department of

384
00:14:21,890 --> 00:14:18,780
Neurosurgery at Temple University

385
00:14:24,770 --> 00:14:21,900
Medical School unfortunately there is a

386
00:14:26,510 --> 00:14:24,780
snag after over 50 years of operation

387
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:26,520
there is no evidence at all that the

388
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:28,110
methods employed by the Institute's for

389
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,930
the achievement of human potential work

390
00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:31,920
regardless of whether the children are

391
00:14:36,830 --> 00:14:35,100
brain injured or well furthermore the

392
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:36,840
mechanisms behind the supposed effect

393
00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:39,060
have been thoroughly discredited so

394
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:40,470
there is no reason to suspect the

395
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,710
methods could work even in principle so

396
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:45,120
what about the scientific backing of

397
00:14:48,830 --> 00:14:47,880
temple Fay well it turns out that phase

398
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:48,840
ideas on the

399
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,400
velopment of the brain were not

400
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:52,320
supported by evidence and have long ago

401
00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:56,010
been shown to be baseless I chose to

402
00:14:59,660 --> 00:14:57,930
start my talk with domin as his work is

403
00:15:02,150 --> 00:14:59,670
not as fashionable today as it has been

404
00:15:04,580 --> 00:15:02,160
in the past and is therefore less likely

405
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:04,590
to be known to the listeners at the same

406
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:07,110
time I gave an early hint as to the

407
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:09,630
conclusion regarding domin I listed the

408
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:11,010
different conditions that dome ins

409
00:15:16,130 --> 00:15:13,410
methods are supposed to help with let me

410
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:16,140
quickly repeat that list brain damage

411
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:19,050
mental retardation mental deficiency

412
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:23,070
cerebral palsy epilepsy autism at the

413
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:25,800
ptosis hyperactivity attention deficit

414
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:28,410
disorder developmental delay and Down

415
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:31,620
syndrome such a mishmash of genetic

416
00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:33,210
structural physical and developmental

417
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:35,940
phenomena must raise the red flag of

418
00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:37,740
quackery in the minds of anyone who has

419
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:39,630
had some experience with various forms

420
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:42,480
of alternative to medicine a cure for

421
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:44,250
all or at least for numerous loosely

422
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:46,170
related phenomena is one of the

423
00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:48,210
hallmarks of unscientific treatment

424
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:51,720
modalities dominis institute has been

425
00:15:55,550 --> 00:15:53,970
around for a long time but they are far

426
00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:55,560
from alone in offering ways of curing

427
00:15:59,570 --> 00:15:57,510
children with brain related disabilities

428
00:16:02,060 --> 00:15:59,580
and disorders or improving their

429
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:02,070
performance of world children Winfred

430
00:16:06,730 --> 00:16:04,620
door a UK industrialist and father of a

431
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,740
child severely affected by dyslexia

432
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:09,360
invented a series of exercises that were

433
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:12,390
supposed to beat ADHD dyslexia dyspraxia

434
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:15,390
and Asperger's syndrome for a few years

435
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:17,550
the door program was very successful in

436
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:19,980
the UK and in Australia thousands of

437
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:22,050
parents paid hefty fees to experience

438
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:24,300
the method details of which were kept as

439
00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:27,210
a trade secret despite insisting that

440
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:28,950
the program was based on some scientific

441
00:16:34,490 --> 00:16:31,500
research door was never able to show any

442
00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:34,500
properly conducted studies the one study

443
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:36,840
that was ever exposed was soon shown to

444
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:38,490
be poorly conducted and uncontrolled

445
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:40,770
which led to damning articles in The

446
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:42,660
Times Educational Supplement and in the

447
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:45,870
journal dyslexia the door program went

448
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:48,300
into liquidation in Australia in 2008

449
00:16:54,260 --> 00:16:52,770
and in the UK in early 2009 many parents

450
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:54,270
have pay deposits that will never be

451
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:56,010
returned without their children going

452
00:17:00,200 --> 00:16:58,290
through the program the available

453
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:00,210
evidence suggests that they're not worse

454
00:17:04,909 --> 00:17:01,769
off than those who spent them

455
00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:04,919
indeed go through the program dr. Phil

456
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:07,620
he of Oprah fame and well-known promoter

457
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:10,110
of pseudo psychology has a page on his

458
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:11,970
site providing strategies for improving

459
00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:13,850
your child's intellectual performance

460
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:16,439
the page starts with this rather

461
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:19,770
appropriate disclaimer quote is it

462
00:17:23,779 --> 00:17:21,089
possible to raise your child's

463
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:23,789
intelligence some experts say you can't

464
00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:26,130
because it's fixed at birth while others

465
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:27,950
believe that intelligence is changeable

466
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:30,480
neither side of the intelligence debate

467
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:32,850
disputes that you can at least increase

468
00:17:38,029 --> 00:17:34,110
your child's intellectual performance

469
00:17:40,220 --> 00:17:38,039
end quote what follows on that page is

470
00:17:42,919 --> 00:17:40,230
the list of general advice some of which

471
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:42,929
is simple sensible stuff such as create

472
00:17:47,389 --> 00:17:45,510
a stimulating environment while some is

473
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:47,399
a little bit more debatable such as

474
00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:49,529
practice control breathing exercises

475
00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:52,529
with your child in any case nothing

476
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:54,360
contentious is presented until you

477
00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:56,490
follow a link to a site in which dr.

478
00:18:03,080 --> 00:17:59,220
Phil's mentor dr. Frank lawless sells

479
00:18:06,289 --> 00:18:03,090
CDs titled upping your IQ and music for

480
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:06,299
enhancing IQ it should be noted that

481
00:18:10,399 --> 00:18:08,130
while there is no evidence that you can

482
00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:10,409
improve a child's IQ there is plenty of

483
00:18:14,629 --> 00:18:11,580
evidence that you can improve a child's

484
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:14,639
IQ score the two are not the same of

485
00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:16,380
course and it is possible to do better

486
00:18:21,649 --> 00:18:19,620
in an IQ test with enough preparation no

487
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,659
child will turn from average to genius

488
00:18:26,990 --> 00:18:24,000
or from to average but certain

489
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:27,000
improvements are possible I like the

490
00:18:30,289 --> 00:18:28,710
domain of door systems which have at

491
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:30,299
least part of their focus on children

492
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,580
with genuine problems the improve your

493
00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:34,799
child IQ type products are aimed at

494
00:18:39,649 --> 00:18:37,350
children who are well one site selling

495
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:39,659
IQ improvement CDs under the ambitious

496
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:41,250
claim that such an improvement is

497
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:44,010
guaranteed details the expected increase

498
00:18:48,940 --> 00:18:46,950
in income for an increase in IQ in order

499
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:48,950
to encourage parents to purchase the CDs

500
00:18:54,139 --> 00:18:52,080
the value of an IQ point in case you are

501
00:18:57,260 --> 00:18:54,149
interested is one thousand dollars per

502
00:18:58,940 --> 00:18:57,270
year it is easy to understand why

503
00:19:00,529 --> 00:18:58,950
parents of children with neurological

504
00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:00,539
impairments fall for the kind of

505
00:19:06,169 --> 00:19:02,760
promises made by domin door in their ilk

506
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:06,179
a lot of parents in such situations are

507
00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:08,010
either very frustrated with dealing with

508
00:19:12,740 --> 00:19:10,289
their child's problem or concerned about

509
00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:12,750
their child's future or most probably

510
00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:14,980
both since

511
00:19:18,270 --> 00:19:16,390
state of our understanding of the brain

512
00:19:20,730 --> 00:19:18,280
is such that a lot of neurological

513
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:20,740
problems are either untreatable or can

514
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:22,650
only be alleviated to a small extent

515
00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:25,000
parents can become very desperate and

516
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:26,590
choose to cling to the hope that these

517
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,340
snake oil merchants offer unfortunately

518
00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:31,360
for most of the conditions mentioned

519
00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:33,820
there are no cures only techniques that

520
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:35,950
help manage the problems and parents

521
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:37,450
would do well to spend their time and

522
00:19:41,850 --> 00:19:39,370
money on the limited benefits of those

523
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:41,860
techniques rather than on miracle cures

524
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:44,710
that don't work having used the term

525
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,450
snake oil merchants I would like to

526
00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:48,400
mention in parenthesis that there is

527
00:19:52,169 --> 00:19:50,230
reason to believe that both flenderman

528
00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:52,179
and Winfred or started their journey

529
00:19:56,970 --> 00:19:54,630
misguided but genuinely eager to help

530
00:19:58,799 --> 00:19:56,980
while it is clear that door turned his

531
00:20:00,930 --> 00:19:58,809
attention to profit making very quickly

532
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:00,940
the Dolman case seems to be less

533
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:03,610
clear-cut he may well still believe that

534
00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:05,770
his methods help and be doing this for

535
00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:08,470
the benefit of the children and back to

536
00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:11,020
parents while I expressed understanding

537
00:20:14,370 --> 00:20:12,100
for the plight of parents of

538
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:14,380
neurologically impaired children I must

539
00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:15,850
say I'm a lot less tolerant of the

540
00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:18,040
parents of neurotypical children who go

541
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:19,630
to great lengths to improve the child's

542
00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:21,700
performance I am NOT by the way

543
00:20:25,860 --> 00:20:23,590
referring to helping a child achieve a

544
00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:25,870
specific goal such as getting good marks

545
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:28,840
at final exams it seems to me that the

546
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:30,460
main reason for wanting to generally

547
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:32,380
improve a child's performance has a lot

548
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:33,730
more to do with competition with other

549
00:20:38,610 --> 00:20:35,919
children and parents than it is with a

550
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,620
good of the child there is plenty of

551
00:20:42,659 --> 00:20:40,480
evidence that giving children attention

552
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:42,669
reading with them playing with them and

553
00:20:45,690 --> 00:20:43,840
ensuring they get help when they

554
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:45,700
struggle helps them achieve better

555
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,490
academic and emotional outcomes buying

556
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,320
them a CD that promises to increase

557
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:52,960
their IQ by few points it's only a way

558
00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:54,610
of sending children the message that

559
00:20:58,409 --> 00:20:56,350
they need to improve which by

560
00:21:01,200 --> 00:20:58,419
implication means that they're not good

561
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:01,210
enough as they are such a message is

562
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:03,070
likely to be a lot more damaging to a

563
00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:05,710
child in the benefit of an increase of a

564
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:20,550
hi this is grizzly from the Grizzlies

565
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,530
growls podcasts at Grizzlies growls calm

566
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:26,320
and you're listening to the sceptic soul

567
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:30,880
and so my but hey don't take my word for

568
00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:37,120
it oh come on that was funny skeptic

569
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:48,550
don't take my word I'll never mind hello

570
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:50,530
my name is Mark Laura Ann and welcome to

571
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:52,210
the roundup where I shared news and

572
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:54,190
views double interest skeptics humanists

573
00:21:58,530 --> 00:21:56,290
secularists and followers of the flying

574
00:22:00,480 --> 00:21:58,540
spaghetti monster well-known American

575
00:22:01,890 --> 00:22:00,490
rapper record producer and actor Snoop

576
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:01,900
Dogg has revealed he has joined the

577
00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:03,970
Nation of Islam after appearing at the

578
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:05,590
religious groups annual saviours day

579
00:22:10,110 --> 00:22:08,650
event in Chicago Snoop who has described

580
00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:10,120
himself as the leader of the hip-hop

581
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:12,340
community told followers he would share

582
00:22:16,050 --> 00:22:13,770
what he learned with other musicians

583
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:16,060
snoop told reporters he had joined the

584
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:18,100
group because he was quote doing what's

585
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:20,170
right and representing what's right and

586
00:22:24,780 --> 00:22:22,960
quote the Nation of Islam wishes to

587
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:24,790
resurrect the spiritual mental social

588
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:26,770
and economic conditions of the black men

589
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:29,200
and women of America within an Islamic

590
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:31,870
framework at the saviours day event the

591
00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:33,580
rapper sat on stage while nation of

592
00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:35,350
islam leader Louis Farrakhan gave a

593
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:37,480
speech Farah Khan has always been

594
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:39,670
surrounded by controversy and critics

595
00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:40,960
have claimed that some of these views

596
00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:43,630
are blatantly racist and homophobic the

597
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:45,940
Southern Poverty Law Center an American

598
00:22:50,790 --> 00:22:48,250
nonprofit legal organization known for

599
00:22:52,650 --> 00:22:50,800
its tolerance education programs listed

600
00:22:56,370 --> 00:22:52,660
the Nation of Islam as an active hate

601
00:22:58,020 --> 00:22:56,380
group in 2005 a German lawmaker last

602
00:22:59,910 --> 00:22:58,030
week suggested an interesting way of

603
00:23:02,520 --> 00:22:59,920
dealing with a menace of dog do on the

604
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:02,530
streets DNA testing to identify the

605
00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:05,770
canine culprit and find its owner Peter

606
00:23:09,450 --> 00:23:07,420
Steiner conservative politician in

607
00:23:11,490 --> 00:23:09,460
eastern Germany said that under his

608
00:23:13,470 --> 00:23:11,500
proposal officials would test the

609
00:23:15,870 --> 00:23:13,480
offending doggy do and then match it up

610
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:15,880
to the offending dog using a DNA

611
00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:19,210
database German dog owners have find 30

612
00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:21,310
to 40 euros if they fail to clean up

613
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:24,100
after their beloved pets naturally very

614
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:26,530
few a court with only four finds been

615
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:27,070
given

616
00:23:32,460 --> 00:23:29,289
in Stein's hometown of rostock last year

617
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:32,470
stein said just saying it wasn't my dog

618
00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:40,960
will not wash anymore US President

619
00:23:44,999 --> 00:23:42,460
Barack Obama's lifting of restrictions

620
00:23:47,399 --> 00:23:45,009
on federal funding for human embryonic

621
00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:47,409
stem cell research has caused conflict

622
00:23:52,769 --> 00:23:49,720
with Pope Benedict and the American

623
00:23:55,379 --> 00:23:52,779
Roman Catholic Church after obama signed

624
00:23:58,289 --> 00:23:55,389
the order on monday the vatican and US

625
00:24:00,509 --> 00:23:58,299
church leaders condemn the move Obama

626
00:24:02,999 --> 00:24:00,519
reversed and repudiated restrictions

627
00:24:05,730 --> 00:24:03,009
placed on the research by george w bush

628
00:24:07,710 --> 00:24:05,740
bring labs across the u.s. to start

629
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:07,720
working with the cells which can give

630
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:10,110
rise to any kind of cell in the body

631
00:24:15,529 --> 00:24:13,360
after the ban was lifted us shares in

632
00:24:17,549 --> 00:24:15,539
stem cell research companies rose

633
00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:17,559
researchers said companies that had

634
00:24:22,019 --> 00:24:19,629
often been afraid to test the waters

635
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:22,029
would probably leap in now that federal

636
00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:24,730
dollars can be used the issue will most

637
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:26,620
likely be a main topic at the first

638
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:28,990
meeting between the Pope and Obama which

639
00:24:33,899 --> 00:24:31,480
is expected to take place in July when

640
00:24:36,659 --> 00:24:33,909
the president is in Italy for a g8

641
00:24:38,340 --> 00:24:36,669
summit the Aegean police have revealed

642
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:38,350
they will be questioning members of the

643
00:24:43,169 --> 00:24:41,500
one world healing Church regarding a 17

644
00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:43,179
year old who died in their care last

645
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,580
week the boys post-mortem results

646
00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:47,679
revealed he died because pus had

647
00:24:52,740 --> 00:24:50,529
gathered in his lungs and heart the boy

648
00:24:54,810 --> 00:24:52,750
had been sick for over a month and was

649
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,820
not taken to a hospital because the

650
00:24:58,860 --> 00:24:56,799
church believes that the sick should not

651
00:25:01,049 --> 00:24:58,870
seek medical assistance but should be

652
00:25:03,779 --> 00:25:01,059
prayed for a new controversy is brewing

653
00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:03,789
over the HBO program big love in an

654
00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:05,620
upcoming episode the show's promotion

655
00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:07,240
says it will reveal sacred latter-day

656
00:25:11,399 --> 00:25:09,820
Saint temple ceremonies church leaders

657
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:11,409
have issued a lengthy response while

658
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:13,990
church members of filing complaints when

659
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:15,970
the series premiered three years ago HBO

660
00:25:19,619 --> 00:25:17,710
executives assured latter-day Saint

661
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:19,629
church leaders that the storylines would

662
00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:22,000
be about polygamists not Mormons but the

663
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:23,620
next episode will blur that distinction

664
00:25:27,779 --> 00:25:25,570
and promises to take viewers inside a

665
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:27,789
temple revealing sacred latter-day Saint

666
00:25:32,249 --> 00:25:30,250
clothing and ceremonies the show's

667
00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:32,259
executive producer says that's never

668
00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:34,120
been shown on television before an

669
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:36,340
ex-mormon consultant helped him with all

670
00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:47,490
hi Phil Plait from Bad Astronomy calm

671
00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:48,520
and the James Randi Educational

672
00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:50,920
Foundation here if you want to get an

673
00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:52,780
American take on things like moon

674
00:25:57,030 --> 00:25:54,940
hoaxers astrology chiropractors

675
00:25:58,860 --> 00:25:57,040
creationists anti-vaxxers global warming

676
00:26:00,750 --> 00:25:58,870
denialists homeopath psychics UFO

677
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:00,760
believers and doom Criers of any flavor

678
00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:04,570
then go to bad astronomy calm Randy org

679
00:26:09,690 --> 00:26:07,720
or skeptic blog org and there you'll be

680
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:09,700
able to read me ranting railing frothing

681
00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:11,500
and foaming about hoaxes nonsense

682
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:13,990
pseudoscience anti science and anyone

683
00:26:24,030 --> 00:26:21,610
who spins folds or mutilates reality hi

684
00:26:26,370 --> 00:26:24,040
I'm professor Stefan Soyka from the

685
00:26:28,770 --> 00:26:26,380
miracle weight loss Academy and I'm here

686
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:28,780
to tell you about our new miracle weight

687
00:26:34,350 --> 00:26:31,450
loss program eat less and exercise more

688
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:34,360
the secret to weight loss will finally

689
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:36,550
be revealed to you if you sign up to

690
00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:39,250
this amazing program now for just 12

691
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:43,030
easy payments of 395 dollars 95 you will

692
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:44,770
get the complete eat less and exercise

693
00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:48,550
more 18 DVD set the four volume eat less

694
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:51,070
and exercise more book series 22 eat

695
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:53,740
less and exercise more audio cds as well

696
00:26:57,450 --> 00:26:55,480
as the exclusive membership to the eat

697
00:26:59,580 --> 00:26:57,460
less and exercise more website to eat

698
00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:59,590
less and exercise more podcast podcast

699
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:02,320
facebook page and twitter posts in which

700
00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:04,510
you will finally have revealed to you

701
00:27:08,910 --> 00:27:07,060
the secret to weight loss you can never

702
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:08,920
get the weight off without the secrets

703
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that will be revealed to you in this

704
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miracle weight loss academy program sign

705
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up to eat less and exercise more and

706
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start losing weight today but that's not

707
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:19,360
all if you sign up and start the eat

708
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less of exercise more program within the

709
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next 30 minutes we will also give you

710
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:26,170
the amazing relaxation program lie down

711
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:28,210
and close your eyes within which you

712
00:27:32,670 --> 00:27:30,490
will discover the miraculous secret to

713
00:27:35,070 --> 00:27:32,680
eliminating stress eat less and exercise

714
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:35,080
more the secret to weight loss is only

715
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:38,710
12 easy payments of 395 dollars 95 away

716
00:27:45,779 --> 00:27:40,930
go to eat less and exercise more

717
00:27:54,649 --> 00:27:48,759
you

718
00:27:56,269 --> 00:27:54,659
now on ebay there's a cartoon a comic

719
00:28:00,109 --> 00:27:56,279
strip called mystery investigators

720
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:00,119
number one signed by well me Richard

721
00:28:05,629 --> 00:28:03,570
Saunders if you go to ebay and simply

722
00:28:07,580 --> 00:28:05,639
search for mystery investigators and the

723
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:07,590
name Richard so mystery investigators

724
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:10,710
Richard you'll find this great little

725
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,289
comic strip drawn bow good friend

726
00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:15,600
phillip quinn it's a quite flattering

727
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:18,600
it's autographed by myself and the

728
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:21,090
cartoonist and all proceeds go to the

729
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:24,539
James Randi Educational Foundation so

730
00:28:39,889 --> 00:28:27,450
run to ebay have a look and be if you

731
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:43,259
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

732
00:28:52,259 --> 00:28:50,409
with dr. Rachel Dunlop how would you

733
00:28:53,810 --> 00:28:52,269
like your pain reduced by fifty to one

734
00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:53,820
hundred percent in just two minutes

735
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:55,929
increase your energy and strength

736
00:29:00,720 --> 00:28:58,450
endurance within minutes of use lose

737
00:29:03,869 --> 00:29:00,730
weight remember if you are overweight

738
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,879
it's not your fault or elevate your

739
00:29:07,289 --> 00:29:05,679
blood glutathione levels by over a

740
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:07,299
whopping three hundred percent in just

741
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:10,960
24 hours hello everyone and welcome to

742
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:14,049
dr. enchi reports the next miracle cure

743
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:17,440
has arrived in Australia it's life wave

744
00:29:21,539 --> 00:29:19,450
miracle patches they are currently

745
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:21,549
touring Australia giving seminars on how

746
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:24,610
to become a distributor the series of

747
00:29:29,489 --> 00:29:26,529
five patches are known as energy

748
00:29:33,419 --> 00:29:29,499
enhancer ice wave Silent nights

749
00:29:35,489 --> 00:29:33,429
glutathione and SP six and like most

750
00:29:38,879 --> 00:29:35,499
miracle cures these guys can treat or

751
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:38,889
assist with everything and anything for

752
00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:41,350
example the energy pads energy enhancer

753
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:43,929
relieves symptoms of fatigue loss of

754
00:29:49,289 --> 00:29:46,330
sleep nervousness exhaustion muscle

755
00:29:51,889 --> 00:29:49,299
weakness drowsiness etc and support

756
00:29:55,139 --> 00:29:51,899
energy production breathing and stamina

757
00:29:56,970 --> 00:29:55,149
ice wave is the pain relief pad which

758
00:29:59,519 --> 00:29:56,980
assists with the temporary relief of

759
00:30:01,139 --> 00:29:59,529
arthritis related joint pain general

760
00:30:03,239 --> 00:30:01,149
body aches stiffness and soreness

761
00:30:05,850 --> 00:30:03,249
swelling and bruising due to falls or

762
00:30:08,369 --> 00:30:05,860
blows headaches due to stress strain or

763
00:30:11,999 --> 00:30:08,379
illness spasms and cramps due to strain

764
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,009
or injury from over exertion silent

765
00:30:16,639 --> 00:30:14,320
night plus is for symptomatic relief due

766
00:30:18,450 --> 00:30:16,649
to exhaustion inability to fall asleep

767
00:30:20,519 --> 00:30:18,460
restlessness tossing and turning

768
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:20,529
sleeplessness due to stress or worry

769
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:22,720
light sleeping an overactive mind

770
00:30:28,139 --> 00:30:24,970
tension anxiety nervous exhaustion

771
00:30:31,379 --> 00:30:28,149
insomnia the glutathione patch is

772
00:30:34,289 --> 00:30:31,389
anti-aging and also anti autism but more

773
00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:34,299
on that later and sp6 is a weight loss

774
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:37,419
and appetite control patch so who are

775
00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:40,570
these miracle distributors lifewave well

776
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:42,220
if you do a google search for life way

777
00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:43,809
if you get lots of hits for scam

778
00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:46,300
websites pyramid marketing and multi

779
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:49,960
marketing on the website worldwide scam

780
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:52,420
network they get an entire page

781
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:55,500
dedicated to their dubious claims

782
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,330
lifewave is headed by the patch inventor

783
00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:01,120
and president david schmidt he is not a

784
00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:03,580
doctor or a scientist and according to

785
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:06,280
the worldwide scam network website he

786
00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:08,590
has no apparent history no formal

787
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:11,260
education no professional experience in

788
00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:14,200
his field no documentation records or

789
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:16,540
published peer review of any research

790
00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:18,820
into nanotechnology resonant energy

791
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:20,820
transfer frequency modulation

792
00:31:26,340 --> 00:31:23,320
electromagnetic induction or any of the

793
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:26,350
things he claims the pads can do there

794
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:28,510
is also some vague but unverifiable

795
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:30,820
rumors that he used to work for the US

796
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:33,010
Navy and the Navy SEALs but they deny

797
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:36,370
this story on the converse the health

798
00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:38,860
and science director of the company dr.

799
00:31:42,810 --> 00:31:40,990
Stephen haltiwanger is a proper doctor

800
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:42,820
with qualifications from the Medical

801
00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:46,510
College of Georgia dr. Hal tawana has a

802
00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:48,580
public record which establishes him as

803
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:51,070
an educated professional with degrees in

804
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:52,810
psychiatry and neurology medicine

805
00:31:58,170 --> 00:31:55,630
chemistry and pathology and professional

806
00:32:00,420 --> 00:31:58,180
memberships awards publications academic

807
00:32:02,490 --> 00:32:00,430
appointments medical licenses and an

808
00:32:05,850 --> 00:32:02,500
impressive work history that spans 34

809
00:32:07,650 --> 00:32:05,860
years however he also has a wide range

810
00:32:09,660 --> 00:32:07,660
of interests that run the gamut of

811
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:09,670
alternative medicine unconventional

812
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:13,150
therapies and radical theories this is

813
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:14,320
evidence that even highly educated

814
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:17,950
people can believe ridiculous things so

815
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,650
how do these miracle patches work well

816
00:32:24,390 --> 00:32:22,240
firstly the patches are self-adhesive

817
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:24,400
and round and about the size of a

818
00:32:30,930 --> 00:32:27,370
nicotine patch according to the lifewave

819
00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:30,940
website they are non transdermal patches

820
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:33,100
that do not put any chemicals or drugs

821
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:37,330
into the body but quote by stimulating

822
00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:39,070
acupuncture points on the body with a

823
00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:40,900
combination of pressure and infrared

824
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:43,270
light what this means is they will

825
00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:45,100
reflect specific frequencies and

826
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:47,020
infrared light to the body to improve

827
00:32:52,410 --> 00:32:50,770
circulation and relieve pain this sounds

828
00:32:53,940 --> 00:32:52,420
a lot like someone has put some science

829
00:32:56,610 --> 00:32:53,950
he words in a hat and pulled them out at

830
00:32:59,010 --> 00:32:56,620
random so let's have a look at some of

831
00:33:01,800 --> 00:32:59,020
the claims about infrared light

832
00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:01,810
now photo bio modulation is a term

833
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:03,580
peppered throughout the material on the

834
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:06,160
lifeway website and this is in fact a

835
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:09,100
legitimate scientific technique it has

836
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:11,470
been shown to be effective in some types

837
00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:13,930
of wound healing but this requires light

838
00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:16,600
to be shown on the wound I can't see any

839
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:18,430
evidence for light being channeled into

840
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:20,230
these pads it just doesn't make

841
00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:22,990
scientific sense and whilst infrared

842
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:24,940
light does exist and can be used for

843
00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:27,130
some therapies exactly how these pads

844
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:30,700
apparently do this is not explained the

845
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,760
energy enhancer patches apparently

846
00:33:37,710 --> 00:33:35,200
stimulate acupuncture points on the body

847
00:33:39,690 --> 00:33:37,720
for improving the flow of energy and

848
00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:39,700
producing drug free energy enhancement

849
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:42,700
within minutes of use now this

850
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:44,170
apparently has something to do with

851
00:33:48,660 --> 00:33:45,970
light being channeled down the meridian

852
00:33:50,250 --> 00:33:48,670
lines well I'm afraid people have been

853
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:50,260
searching for the elusive meridian lines

854
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:52,450
for centuries and we have yet to find

855
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:54,130
them there is still no physiological

856
00:34:00,270 --> 00:33:58,210
evidence that meridian lines exist there

857
00:34:02,670 --> 00:34:00,280
is also a patch called glutathione which

858
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:02,680
is supposed to be anti-aging since it

859
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:05,290
will apparently elevate your antioxidant

860
00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:07,120
levels by over three hundred percent in

861
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:10,360
one day and the website proudly displays

862
00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:12,270
a graph demonstrating this increase

863
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:14,590
there are articles all over the website

864
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:16,330
but none come from peer-reviewed

865
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:19,210
journals sorry to be boring life wave

866
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:21,310
but as a scientist I require evidence

867
00:34:26,090 --> 00:34:24,610
for such extraordinary claims and I'm

868
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:26,100
also not sure how stimulating

869
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:28,450
acupuncture points through light can

870
00:34:32,970 --> 00:34:31,149
increase levels of glutathione I mean

871
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,980
it's very difficult to recruit ich this

872
00:34:37,050 --> 00:34:35,200
claim because scientifically it means

873
00:34:39,930 --> 00:34:37,060
nothing it's just a whole lot of

874
00:34:41,399 --> 00:34:39,940
gobbledygook and of course there are

875
00:34:44,850 --> 00:34:41,409
plenty of testimonials from satisfied

876
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,860
customers on the lifewave website even

877
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:46,720
some pretty important people like

878
00:34:50,669 --> 00:34:48,490
Olympic athletes and national football

879
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:50,679
league players but I'll get on to the

880
00:34:55,230 --> 00:34:53,649
testimonials in just a moment in any

881
00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:55,240
case none of this is particularly

882
00:34:59,760 --> 00:34:56,830
important when you discover that

883
00:35:01,590 --> 00:34:59,770
lifewave products are homeopathic which

884
00:35:03,930 --> 00:35:01,600
means that they likely have nothing in

885
00:35:05,730 --> 00:35:03,940
them at all so what's the point in

886
00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:05,740
discussing the science if what we really

887
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:07,660
have here is a piece of gauze and some

888
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:10,990
water maybe mr. Schmidt claims they

889
00:35:15,150 --> 00:35:12,910
contain amino acids oxygen

890
00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:15,160
sugars and water and it's the amino

891
00:35:19,859 --> 00:35:17,950
acids that do all the magical work but

892
00:35:23,819 --> 00:35:19,869
all I found on the website for life wave

893
00:35:26,849 --> 00:35:23,829
was a list of homeopathic ingredients so

894
00:35:30,990 --> 00:35:26,859
if they contain water and oxygen how can

895
00:35:33,089 --> 00:35:31,000
they cure autism according to an audio

896
00:35:35,549 --> 00:35:33,099
testimonial buried in the bowels of the

897
00:35:38,339 --> 00:35:35,559
lifeway website the glutathione patch

898
00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:38,349
has been helping kids with autism let's

899
00:35:43,859 --> 00:35:40,990
listen to the clip I have a six and a

900
00:35:46,260 --> 00:35:43,869
half year old autistic son I have tried

901
00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:46,270
everything under the Sun week flaxseed

902
00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:50,950
oil facial doctors foot passed on it

903
00:35:57,660 --> 00:35:53,950
ones do you name it we've tried it when

904
00:36:00,990 --> 00:35:57,670
it comes to when it comes to your child

905
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:01,000
he'll try anything we found life went by

906
00:36:05,339 --> 00:36:02,890
accident on the internet he said

907
00:36:09,059 --> 00:36:05,349
something about dignities work for us

908
00:36:11,579 --> 00:36:09,069
it's a killer they got them I'll do

909
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:11,589
anything for my child so hey I've tried

910
00:36:16,529 --> 00:36:13,750
everything else why not one more thing

911
00:36:19,890 --> 00:36:16,539
they said oh it's multi-level marketing

912
00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:19,900
I said oh god here we go you but afraid

913
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:23,380
of work now train the basis for this

914
00:36:27,690 --> 00:36:25,510
dodgy claim is that glutathione is an

915
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:27,700
antioxidant and has been demonstrated to

916
00:36:33,180 --> 00:36:30,130
scavenge mercury in culture dishes in

917
00:36:35,099 --> 00:36:33,190
some studies but this information is

918
00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:35,109
relevant in this case since we are

919
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:36,910
talking about a homeopathic patch

920
00:36:41,279 --> 00:36:39,490
containing water and oxygen which

921
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,289
directs infrared light to tell

922
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:43,440
yourselves to make more glutathione

923
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:46,720
pardon this is dubious to say the least

924
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,680
and wrong scientifically well you might

925
00:36:54,299 --> 00:36:52,240
be wondering how it is that companies

926
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:54,309
such as lifewave can get away with

927
00:36:59,279 --> 00:36:56,049
making claims that they have a magic

928
00:37:03,089 --> 00:36:59,289
patch to cure autism well here's the

929
00:37:04,740 --> 00:37:03,099
trick they don't officially what you

930
00:37:06,569 --> 00:37:04,750
just heard was a satisfied customer

931
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:06,579
espousing the benefits of the

932
00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:09,130
glutathione patch for autism you will

933
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:10,900
not find this claim on any of their

934
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:13,930
official promotional material but they

935
00:37:18,569 --> 00:37:15,760
cannot control what their distributors

936
00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:18,579
or customers say about the patch they

937
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:20,740
can tell their reps to not say it but

938
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:23,410
ultimately they do not have control so

939
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:26,650
that's them off the legal hook this is a

940
00:37:31,350 --> 00:37:28,510
commonly used by multi-level marketing

941
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:31,360
companies in this case the company is

942
00:37:36,020 --> 00:37:33,310
not officially saying their patches can

943
00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:36,030
help with autism a satisfied customer is

944
00:37:41,850 --> 00:37:40,120
tricky and pretty evil and of course all

945
00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:41,860
of this comes with the usual disclaimer

946
00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:44,260
applicable to anyone about to rip you

947
00:37:48,930 --> 00:37:47,080
off we never claimed that the patches

948
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:48,940
are treating or curing any type of

949
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:52,930
medical condition lifewave are currently

950
00:37:58,140 --> 00:37:54,640
in Australia looking for distributors

951
00:38:00,450 --> 00:37:58,150
stay well away and for the blog

952
00:38:02,370 --> 00:38:00,460
accompanying this dr. Richie reports

953
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:02,380
please follow the links from skeptic

954
00:38:18,090 --> 00:38:05,530
zone TV and until next time this has

955
00:38:20,370 --> 00:38:18,100
been dr. a cheery reports the skeptics

956
00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:20,380
own podcast is brought to you by a very

957
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:23,380
dedicated group of volunteers we do it

958
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:25,090
for the love of it there are certain

959
00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:28,440
costs involved like housing the mp3s and

960
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:31,000
the website of course and buying

961
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,370
equipment if you feel like you'd like to

962
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:36,160
contribute there's a paypal button at ww

963
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:41,050
skeptic zone TV your contributions do go

964
00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:46,210
a long way oh and George horeb thanks

965
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:53,760
now that sound you can hear is the

966
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,290
wonderful sound of an Australian BBQ i'm

967
00:39:00,000 --> 00:38:57,760
here at Macquarie University with the

968
00:39:02,610 --> 00:39:00,010
Macquarie skeptics it's Tiffany day

969
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:02,620
flipping a few um veggie burgers hi to

970
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:08,670
vegetarian patties hey oh hi go perfect

971
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:12,130
now you seem to be a lot of right here

972
00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:16,200
oh you seem to be a busy man is alone

973
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:18,760
well yeah I'm just looking up with the

974
00:39:23,370 --> 00:39:20,170
sausages while I'm waiting for Greg to

975
00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:23,380
get back here i'm actually on onion duty

976
00:39:28,530 --> 00:39:26,080
your onion dude how's it going today I

977
00:39:30,930 --> 00:39:28,540
think it's fantastic you listening we've

978
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:30,940
already had to run back to the store to

979
00:39:37,580 --> 00:39:34,390
get more sausages and more bread so yeah

980
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:37,590
good to know excellent I went doing

981
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:39,790
literally a barbecue today of course

982
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:42,310
what we're doing water divining tests

983
00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:44,650
for free beer yep and repaired one

984
00:39:48,510 --> 00:39:47,350
winner already I think yeah and we had

985
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:48,520
one way to have had about eight

986
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:50,530
contestants in one winner but and it's

987
00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:52,570
about a one in six chance so that

988
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:54,580
roughly comes into about chance I'd say

989
00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:57,250
yeah and that's been very good and I

990
00:40:00,390 --> 00:39:59,170
hope we get some more soon lots of

991
00:40:02,370 --> 00:40:00,400
activity around here we've got to dress

992
00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:02,380
it up with skeptic magazines and people

993
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:03,820
taking money for BBQ there's a queue of

994
00:40:07,950 --> 00:40:05,590
people absolutely lined up for the

995
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:07,960
sausages and the hamburgers and

996
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:09,310
hopefully when they finish those they'll

997
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:12,910
be continuing on to do the water

998
00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:16,150
divining for free beer why don't you do

999
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:23,350
it up it's been very successful he don't

1000
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:24,970
know look at the scorecard here we've

1001
00:40:31,710 --> 00:40:29,290
had 12 people try for our water divining

1002
00:40:34,410 --> 00:40:31,720
test for the free beer and surprisingly

1003
00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:34,420
enough we've had two winners out of 12

1004
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:38,740
and the odds are roughly one and six so

1005
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:41,520
so far the vining is operating

1006
00:40:45,540 --> 00:40:43,510
absolutely according to what chance

1007
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:45,550
would predict who would have thought

1008
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:48,760
that but this is a really successful

1009
00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:50,410
endeavor by the Macquarie skeptics

1010
00:40:56,110 --> 00:40:52,350
people are still queued up for their

1011
00:41:02,260 --> 00:40:56,120
sausages and their veggie burgers

1012
00:41:04,270 --> 00:41:02,270
let's is away the sound of a real

1013
00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:04,280
australian barbecue you can save the

1014
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:06,140
difference robot I'm up here at the head

1015
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:07,520
of the table here and people are still

1016
00:41:11,410 --> 00:41:09,770
lined up to get there to get their

1017
00:41:12,850 --> 00:41:11,420
sausages and the skeptic magazines are

1018
00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:12,860
flying off the table flying off

1019
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:16,190
absolutely flying off multitasking you

1020
00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:19,010
are very well done we've had two wins so

1021
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:21,080
far oh really who wins wow how many have

1022
00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:23,180
gone to want to get well okay so who's

1023
00:41:43,090 --> 00:41:28,580
exact oh yeah grab magazine the free one

1024
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,100
sausage oh it's the end of the day the

1025
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:44,720
end of the BBQ and the end of the beer

1026
00:41:49,690 --> 00:41:47,630
divining and we had I think I don't have

1027
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:49,700
the figures right with me but something

1028
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:54,470
like 19 17 on 19 people had a go and we

1029
00:42:00,940 --> 00:41:57,650
had four winners which is just a little

1030
00:42:02,830 --> 00:42:00,950
bit above what chance would predict just

1031
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:02,840
a little bit but sure within the bell

1032
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:07,430
curve and it was only a fun test for

1033
00:42:11,860 --> 00:42:09,050
publicity so not a true test but

1034
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:11,870
interesting nevertheless the barbecue

1035
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:13,490
for the macquarie skeptics was hugely

1036
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:15,890
successful they had to keep running back

1037
00:42:21,660 --> 00:42:17,330
to the shop to buy more bread more

1038
00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:21,670
sausages more onions so there's a clue

1039
00:42:34,770 --> 00:42:25,580
University people have a barbecue to

1040
00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:38,140
join us now for drinking skeptically in

1041
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:54,020
the think tank to kick it up and watch

1042
00:43:00,070 --> 00:42:56,450
the show the sheriff Canterbury country

1043
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:00,080
thank you no don't think that happening

1044
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,810
Lou Dave the happy singer I'm surprised

1045
00:43:06,810 --> 00:43:04,400
to hear that welcome everybody to think

1046
00:43:08,890 --> 00:43:06,820
tank of course we just heard a

1047
00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:08,900
announcement here at our club for people

1048
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:10,670
to go into which the country singers

1049
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,310
Rachel why aren't you running well I

1050
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:15,920
wanted Dave and Dave to come with me and

1051
00:43:20,290 --> 00:43:17,630
maybe he could jump up and play but he

1052
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:20,300
doesn't seem that king I don't think

1053
00:43:23,950 --> 00:43:21,680
they'd want me I'm not very good at

1054
00:43:26,110 --> 00:43:23,960
country music I see I'd like to welcome

1055
00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:26,120
mayer a doctor Rachel Dunlop hello

1056
00:43:31,090 --> 00:43:28,430
riches and Dave the happy singer hello

1057
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:31,100
hello what's your website again they

1058
00:43:37,810 --> 00:43:34,010
don't remember it Dave the happy singer

1059
00:43:41,530 --> 00:43:37,820
calm as if we could figure welcome to

1060
00:43:43,570 --> 00:43:41,540
the think tank gee thanks for coming

1061
00:43:45,790 --> 00:43:43,580
again Dave oh no problem i quite enjoy

1062
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:45,800
it now you did oh we were regular they

1063
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:47,930
do you're all cheering to hear you I

1064
00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:50,210
think those people listening to the show

1065
00:43:56,020 --> 00:43:53,420
in Sydney it's friday 13th of course

1066
00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:56,030
it is released and we've made it this

1067
00:43:59,799 --> 00:43:57,740
far without anything bad happening

1068
00:44:02,530 --> 00:43:59,809
person but also which of this is the

1069
00:44:04,299 --> 00:44:02,540
second friday the 13th of 2009 isn't it

1070
00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:04,309
that's true we had one mouthfuls

1071
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:06,200
februari how often does that happen here

1072
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:08,660
we get every so many years they're like

1073
00:44:14,349 --> 00:44:10,970
three Friday the 13th I'm sure some

1074
00:44:17,410 --> 00:44:14,359
listener well know them yeah but I've

1075
00:44:19,450 --> 00:44:17,420
been shut out and a big message I'm

1076
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:19,460
speaking tonight at Macquarie University

1077
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:22,970
oh i'm giving a talk like a similar talk

1078
00:44:28,690 --> 00:44:25,490
to the one I gave in atlanta georgia for

1079
00:44:31,539 --> 00:44:28,700
dragoncon called skepticism 101 or an

1080
00:44:33,069 --> 00:44:31,549
introduction to skepticism so those

1081
00:44:34,539 --> 00:44:33,079
people in Sydney especially near

1082
00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:34,549
Macquarie University who want to come

1083
00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:37,339
along just Google Macquarie skeptics and

1084
00:44:40,530 --> 00:44:39,230
you can see all the details what are you

1085
00:44:43,089 --> 00:44:40,540
going to be talking about Richard

1086
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:43,099
skepticism yeah you mentioned that can

1087
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:46,160
you be more specific a lot of people

1088
00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:48,290
don't realize what the word is all know

1089
00:44:51,309 --> 00:44:49,640
what the word is they think we're a

1090
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:51,319
bunch of old beard and manage sit around

1091
00:44:54,849 --> 00:44:53,690
and say no that's impossible i say i'm

1092
00:44:58,539 --> 00:44:54,859
talking about many skeptics a

1093
00:45:00,700 --> 00:44:58,549
clean-shaven these days he'll clean

1094
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:00,710
shaven rachel and i am clean shaven i

1095
00:45:04,930 --> 00:45:03,410
dressed up for the occasion you did so

1096
00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:04,940
i'll be discussing that tonight so no

1097
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:06,680
Corey University those people listening

1098
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:08,480
in city and only you feel listening on

1099
00:45:13,569 --> 00:45:12,049
Friday the 13th of March 2009 because I

1100
00:45:16,140 --> 00:45:13,579
hope most people will be listening to

1101
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:16,150
this in years to come

1102
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,250
that's true well Richard I want to keep

1103
00:45:24,580 --> 00:45:22,160
up with a story which is a sad story in

1104
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:24,590
fact and if you guys were listening in a

1105
00:45:28,420 --> 00:45:25,760
couple of weeks ago you would have heard

1106
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:28,430
my dr. Richie reports about the

1107
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:31,250
anti-vaxxers in Australia it was just a

1108
00:45:36,970 --> 00:45:34,070
summary of how we suffer the same sort

1109
00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:36,980
of fate as the UK and the u.s. to some

1110
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:42,020
extent now tragically on Monday we had

1111
00:45:47,050 --> 00:45:44,810
our first death since 2000 from a

1112
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:47,060
whooping cough and it was a four week

1113
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:50,720
old baby girl now I think some of you

1114
00:45:56,110 --> 00:45:52,670
listeners may remember that I talked

1115
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:56,120
about whooping cough as an example of an

1116
00:46:00,400 --> 00:45:57,890
epidemic that has occurred because of a

1117
00:46:02,650 --> 00:46:00,410
lack of vaccination and I mentioned that

1118
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:02,660
you cannot get vaccinated until you're

1119
00:46:07,810 --> 00:46:05,150
two months old so this girl was too

1120
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:07,820
young to become vaccinated however she

1121
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:10,160
was living on the north and coast of New

1122
00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:12,760
South Wales and this is an area of high

1123
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:15,020
non-vaccinated you know people in

1124
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:18,860
general so obviously she was in a pocket

1125
00:46:22,090 --> 00:46:20,090
where there were other people that

1126
00:46:27,250 --> 00:46:22,100
weren't vaccinated that we're obviously

1127
00:46:28,750 --> 00:46:27,260
either carrying her bacteria or had had

1128
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:28,760
it themselves and she is too young to be

1129
00:46:33,250 --> 00:46:31,250
vaccinated I get against it and she

1130
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:33,260
passed away tragically in intensive care

1131
00:46:40,229 --> 00:46:35,130
on Monday

1132
00:46:42,029 --> 00:46:40,239
so this is a tragic case of a girl dying

1133
00:46:44,579 --> 00:46:42,039
when it could have possibly been

1134
00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:44,589
prevented if the population had been

1135
00:46:48,779 --> 00:46:46,390
vaccinated to enough to create her

1136
00:46:50,609 --> 00:46:48,789
immunity yeah which most of your

1137
00:46:53,449 --> 00:46:50,619
listeners would recall is when at least

1138
00:46:56,669 --> 00:46:53,459
depending on the disease and/or the

1139
00:46:58,319 --> 00:46:56,679
vaccine it's generally about ninety

1140
00:46:59,969 --> 00:46:58,329
percent of the population needs to be

1141
00:47:03,419 --> 00:46:59,979
vaccinated to prevent the spread of

1142
00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:03,429
disease now as a result of this health

1143
00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:05,499
officials on the north at in northern

1144
00:47:10,739 --> 00:47:07,390
New South Wales have offered free

1145
00:47:12,539 --> 00:47:10,749
booster shots to new parents and

1146
00:47:15,479 --> 00:47:12,549
grandparents and also carers of young

1147
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:15,489
children because obviously four weeks

1148
00:47:20,009 --> 00:47:17,650
old is too young to get vaccinated for

1149
00:47:21,689 --> 00:47:20,019
whooping cough but they're also calling

1150
00:47:24,419 --> 00:47:21,699
on the possibility of maybe bringing

1151
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:24,429
forward than the dose of the jobs for

1152
00:47:30,209 --> 00:47:27,249
new baby I heard that yes then even

1153
00:47:31,469 --> 00:47:30,219
younger yeah yeah I mean at the moment

1154
00:47:34,289 --> 00:47:31,479
the schedule is two months four months

1155
00:47:36,749 --> 00:47:34,299
six months and then a booster at two

1156
00:47:39,479 --> 00:47:36,759
years but yeah in this case it wasn't

1157
00:47:42,209 --> 00:47:39,489
enough to save this poor child and I

1158
00:47:44,910 --> 00:47:42,219
mean just I know it's just so

1159
00:47:47,339 --> 00:47:44,920
frustrating because can you imagine

1160
00:47:49,739 --> 00:47:47,349
these parents heartbreak that their

1161
00:47:53,669 --> 00:47:49,749
child couldn't be vaccinated and because

1162
00:47:55,469 --> 00:47:53,679
some other I was going to use a rude

1163
00:47:58,799 --> 00:47:55,479
word there but I won't some other

1164
00:48:02,989 --> 00:47:58,809
ignorance lid mislead ignorant person

1165
00:48:05,309 --> 00:48:02,999
has made a decision based on you know

1166
00:48:07,319 --> 00:48:05,319
scaremongering exactly that they're not

1167
00:48:09,150 --> 00:48:07,329
going to vaccinate their kids or you

1168
00:48:11,370 --> 00:48:09,160
know themselves and so this has resulted

1169
00:48:13,930 --> 00:48:11,380
in the tragic death of somebody's

1170
00:48:16,780 --> 00:48:13,940
daughter yeah yeah no

1171
00:48:18,849 --> 00:48:16,790
some of you may recall that we have our

1172
00:48:21,730 --> 00:48:18,859
sort of anti vax body is called an

1173
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:21,740
Australian vaccination network and they

1174
00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:23,210
are headed by a woman by the name of

1175
00:48:28,290 --> 00:48:25,910
Merrill dory and I know of a person who

1176
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:28,300
actually sent her a personal email today

1177
00:48:32,050 --> 00:48:30,290
congratulating her on achieving what

1178
00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:32,060
obviously our her goals and that is the

1179
00:48:36,430 --> 00:48:33,950
death of young children yeah it's

1180
00:48:39,819 --> 00:48:36,440
incredible I mean if he how can she sit

1181
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:39,829
back now and go well yeah what I'm doing

1182
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:42,950
is a good thing when it results in it's

1183
00:48:48,099 --> 00:48:45,410
such a tragedy good question well I am

1184
00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:48,109
much in children rationalize it I don't

1185
00:48:52,329 --> 00:48:49,990
think the practice of the evidence

1186
00:48:54,609 --> 00:48:52,339
arisia today she doesn't seem to have a

1187
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:54,619
track record in going where the facts

1188
00:48:59,890 --> 00:48:57,200
and evidence lead you're absolutely and

1189
00:49:01,390 --> 00:48:59,900
she if she's decided that the vaccines

1190
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:01,400
are a bad thing then she'll rationalize

1191
00:49:05,319 --> 00:49:04,130
it in some way children know that

1192
00:49:08,530 --> 00:49:05,329
probably for all the deaths through

1193
00:49:10,540 --> 00:49:08,540
vaccines is this has been one that was

1194
00:49:12,339 --> 00:49:10,550
not a result of vaccine so that's just

1195
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:12,349
the way it is yeah baby was too young to

1196
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:13,640
be vaccinated anyway so what difference

1197
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:15,770
would have actually what are you saying

1198
00:49:21,780 --> 00:49:17,839
in dr. Richard reports a couple of weeks

1199
00:49:24,250 --> 00:49:21,790
ago when your anti-vaccination about

1200
00:49:25,780 --> 00:49:24,260
these people say it's a good idea for

1201
00:49:28,569 --> 00:49:25,790
these children to get these diseases

1202
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:28,579
they said that sometimes it's not in the

1203
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:30,410
interest of the child to be vaccinated

1204
00:49:34,270 --> 00:49:32,089
sometimes it's in the interest of the

1205
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:34,280
child to catch these diseases well you

1206
00:49:38,620 --> 00:49:35,930
know that was why I used whooping cough

1207
00:49:40,270 --> 00:49:38,630
as an example and then I am NOT psychic

1208
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:40,280
I couldn't have predicted this was going

1209
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:41,510
to happen but that was what I was

1210
00:49:45,460 --> 00:49:43,190
discussing I mean the potential that

1211
00:49:47,470 --> 00:49:45,470
that what has happened now could happen

1212
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:47,480
with people saying oh well you know

1213
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,430
these childhood diseases aren't that bad

1214
00:49:53,410 --> 00:49:51,680
I mean they have been known to say that

1215
00:49:55,259 --> 00:49:53,420
in fact Jenny Barnett's been going to

1216
00:49:57,269 --> 00:49:55,269
say that as well well

1217
00:49:58,919 --> 00:49:57,279
yeah that's not really that bad when you

1218
00:50:01,499 --> 00:49:58,929
catch whooping cough and then you die

1219
00:50:04,259 --> 00:50:01,509
you know I mean that is that is the

1220
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:04,269
worst-case scenario however it has come

1221
00:50:10,169 --> 00:50:07,689
to be this week and even if it's not the

1222
00:50:11,939 --> 00:50:10,179
worst case i mean you know i read

1223
00:50:13,499 --> 00:50:11,949
stories about mothers who are desperate

1224
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:13,509
to hopefully holding their like six week

1225
00:50:16,769 --> 00:50:14,890
old babies and they're coughing so much

1226
00:50:18,689 --> 00:50:16,779
they're cracking their ribs and they're

1227
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:18,699
turning blue because they can't get air

1228
00:50:24,659 --> 00:50:21,609
into their lungs now how is that in the

1229
00:50:27,209 --> 00:50:24,669
interest of the child obviously it's not

1230
00:50:30,179 --> 00:50:27,219
and we live in a time and age where we

1231
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:30,189
know that well most of us well I was

1232
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:31,599
talking to a guy at work today his

1233
00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:35,049
apparent and he am we happen to be

1234
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:36,880
talking about immunization I don't

1235
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:39,729
recall why and here's a chemist in fact

1236
00:50:45,689 --> 00:50:42,880
and he brought to my attention the

1237
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:45,699
american chemical society which is a

1238
00:50:50,609 --> 00:50:48,249
group of obviously chemist so pure

1239
00:50:52,349 --> 00:50:50,619
chemist you know people that synthesized

1240
00:50:54,959 --> 00:50:52,359
compounds in a lab that kind of chemists

1241
00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:54,969
in a pharmacist start pharmacy if you

1242
00:50:59,909 --> 00:50:57,609
know what i mean and he brought to my

1243
00:51:01,559 --> 00:50:59,919
attention a part of their website which

1244
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:01,569
is usually all very much about

1245
00:51:04,649 --> 00:51:03,249
structural chemistry and this compound

1246
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:04,659
reacts with that compound and makes this

1247
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:06,729
compound they've dedicated one whole

1248
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:09,249
section of their website to anti-vaxxers

1249
00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:12,130
and debunking anti-vaxxers because

1250
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:14,169
apparently a couple of years ago they

1251
00:51:18,419 --> 00:51:16,689
received a letter in their journal from

1252
00:51:20,249 --> 00:51:18,429
someone saying well what's the link

1253
00:51:22,709 --> 00:51:20,259
between mercury and autism or something

1254
00:51:24,959 --> 00:51:22,719
like that so they now have this whole

1255
00:51:26,370 --> 00:51:24,969
section which is updated regularly in

1256
00:51:28,259 --> 00:51:26,380
fact the last time it was updated was

1257
00:51:30,940 --> 00:51:28,269
about three or four days ago with the

1258
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:30,950
omnibus case from America

1259
00:51:38,370 --> 00:51:33,230
so they are the chemists are doing it as

1260
00:51:41,410 --> 00:51:38,380
well you know so I me and that that

1261
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:41,420
leads me to hang on coming to stop her

1262
00:51:47,050 --> 00:51:45,440
circles getting flustered now what I was

1263
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,060
just about to tell our loosely but

1264
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:49,520
Rachel's getting whiplash would be can I

1265
00:51:55,290 --> 00:51:52,310
come in here yeah I'm please I'm this

1266
00:51:57,970 --> 00:51:55,300
I'm getting angry listeners I'm

1267
00:52:00,880 --> 00:51:57,980
interested in the I've got a question

1268
00:52:04,359 --> 00:52:00,890
for you we quite often hear when we talk

1269
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:04,369
about vaccines the argument that it's

1270
00:52:07,690 --> 00:52:06,050
for a parent to decide what's best for

1271
00:52:09,579 --> 00:52:07,700
their child and that you know parents

1272
00:52:12,910 --> 00:52:09,589
have got the right to decide their child

1273
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:12,920
and of course the the herd immunity

1274
00:52:15,970 --> 00:52:14,510
becomes a problem there because if

1275
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:15,980
individual parents choose for their

1276
00:52:20,740 --> 00:52:19,520
child and it's it's not only that child

1277
00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:20,750
that the putting at risk as we've seen

1278
00:52:25,450 --> 00:52:22,900
in this that's right how do we go about

1279
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:25,460
communicating this because this idea of

1280
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:27,770
parents rights and how dare you tell me

1281
00:52:32,109 --> 00:52:29,810
why I should bring up my child molester

1282
00:52:33,849 --> 00:52:32,119
do my job it's an emotive argument and

1283
00:52:36,339 --> 00:52:33,859
it's it's quite a powerful argument and

1284
00:52:37,390 --> 00:52:36,349
in most cases you know parents do have

1285
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:37,400
the right to bring up their own children

1286
00:52:44,260 --> 00:52:40,160
oh really I how would you approach

1287
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:44,270
trying to communicate that's a very good

1288
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:46,310
question because what they are acting on

1289
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,730
is pure emotion and scaremonger well i

1290
00:52:52,990 --> 00:52:51,200
can i could give you an example of that

1291
00:52:54,370 --> 00:52:53,000
that I came across today actually Dave

1292
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:54,380
became summer I'm going to talk about

1293
00:52:59,410 --> 00:52:56,290
this a bit later on but

1294
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:59,420
I'm often matching Ben Goldacre so I

1295
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:02,000
think most public then hi Ben my Ben I

1296
00:53:08,110 --> 00:53:05,930
would say I'm stalking you I was reading

1297
00:53:09,550 --> 00:53:08,120
his blog today and there's some more

1298
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:09,560
i'll give you more of an update into

1299
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:10,970
what's going on with jenny barnett later

1300
00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:14,450
on but the parent had posted a comment

1301
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:17,180
on his blog saying that when they became

1302
00:53:21,340 --> 00:53:19,010
a father for the first time about 12

1303
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:21,350
months ago and he's not a scientist or a

1304
00:53:24,850 --> 00:53:22,880
doctor and he just wanted to get some

1305
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:24,860
information about MMR because it heard

1306
00:53:30,070 --> 00:53:26,930
about you know the rumors about autism

1307
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:30,080
etc and the mercury thimerosal stuff and

1308
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:32,240
he said that he just went to google and

1309
00:53:37,330 --> 00:53:34,130
he managed to come up with mostly

1310
00:53:39,010 --> 00:53:37,340
positive information and that was in the

1311
00:53:41,950 --> 00:53:39,020
end what swayed him to make a decision

1312
00:53:44,110 --> 00:53:41,960
to actually get his child vaccinated and

1313
00:53:47,050 --> 00:53:44,120
i'm not sure what websites he came

1314
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:47,060
across but he said that yeah he was

1315
00:53:54,220 --> 00:53:49,490
convinced by that but on top of that in

1316
00:53:55,630 --> 00:53:54,230
australia in 1997 a policy was

1317
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:55,640
introduced by the government at the time

1318
00:53:59,470 --> 00:53:57,890
in fact by michael wooldridge if you

1319
00:54:01,330 --> 00:53:59,480
remember their health minister back then

1320
00:54:04,420 --> 00:54:01,340
which was called the maternity

1321
00:54:05,890 --> 00:54:04,430
immunization allowance and this was part

1322
00:54:08,460 --> 00:54:05,900
of an incentive by the government to

1323
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:08,470
increase the levels of vaccination

1324
00:54:13,830 --> 00:54:10,690
and also to increase the awareness

1325
00:54:15,930 --> 00:54:13,840
amongst GP is to talk to parents about

1326
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:15,940
it and also to encourage parents to

1327
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:18,430
complete the whole schedule so you know

1328
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:19,810
for example with whooping cough you've

1329
00:54:24,030 --> 00:54:21,670
got to get like one shot and then for

1330
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:24,040
after that so if you just get to that's

1331
00:54:28,050 --> 00:54:25,330
not going to give you enough immunity

1332
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,060
either so they introduce this incentive

1333
00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:29,920
and part of that is that doctors get a

1334
00:54:35,730 --> 00:54:32,470
bit of a kick back financially if they

1335
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:35,740
do vaccinate kids and also parents get

1336
00:54:39,690 --> 00:54:37,510
two hundred dollars deposited into their

1337
00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:39,700
account if they can play the schedule

1338
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:41,320
for their kids so there is a big

1339
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:44,260
scientific conspiracy that's right now

1340
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:46,450
listen to this day this is what the

1341
00:54:49,859 --> 00:54:48,250
anti-vaxxers go on about all the time

1342
00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:49,869
right that the doctors are getting paid

1343
00:54:54,570 --> 00:54:52,660
and therefore it's a big farmer and it's

1344
00:54:57,540 --> 00:54:54,580
in their interest to do it data than are

1345
00:54:59,250 --> 00:54:57,550
now I was doing some research on this a

1346
00:55:00,930 --> 00:54:59,260
couple of weeks ago and I dug up some

1347
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:00,940
very interesting information about this

1348
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:03,640
and that is that oh she has it right

1349
00:55:09,180 --> 00:55:05,290
here all I blogged about this a few

1350
00:55:11,790 --> 00:55:09,190
weeks ago listeners but in fact you can

1351
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:11,800
also get the maternity immunization

1352
00:55:16,859 --> 00:55:13,359
allow if you are a conscientious

1353
00:55:18,990 --> 00:55:16,869
objector how do you go about this where

1354
00:55:20,849 --> 00:55:19,000
you go and see a doctor they have to

1355
00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:20,859
explain to you the pros and cons of

1356
00:55:24,750 --> 00:55:23,260
getting your child vaccinated and then

1357
00:55:26,550 --> 00:55:24,760
if you still say I don't want to do it

1358
00:55:28,109 --> 00:55:26,560
you have to fill out a form it's

1359
00:55:31,630 --> 00:55:28,119
actually health insurance commission

1360
00:55:33,530 --> 00:55:31,640
immune 12 form in case you want to know

1361
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:33,540
sometimes you might have to fill out a

1362
00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:35,490
stacked deck and then that gets sent off

1363
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:37,740
to sent a link and they put the two

1364
00:55:42,110 --> 00:55:40,010
hundred dollars in your account anyway

1365
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,120
for the international listeners the

1366
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:44,640
statutory declaration and send a link

1367
00:55:50,300 --> 00:55:48,240
further yeah benefits about job losses

1368
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:50,310
that pays all our pensions and that's

1369
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:52,770
the thing so the statistics that were

1370
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:53,970
released a couple of weeks ago from

1371
00:55:57,590 --> 00:55:55,770
Medicare about the levels of vaccination

1372
00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:57,600
in Australia showed that between two to

1373
00:56:01,760 --> 00:55:59,400
three percent on parents in this country

1374
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:01,770
I classified as conscientious objectives

1375
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:04,770
I'm glad it's not more yeah well it is

1376
00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:07,710
quite lower which is good but it's also

1377
00:56:11,210 --> 00:56:09,240
quite in my opinion it's a little bit

1378
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:11,220
hypocritical if you object to

1379
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:13,200
vaccination so strongly that you won't

1380
00:56:15,590 --> 00:56:14,640
get your kids vaccinated therefore

1381
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:15,600
you're putting the rest of the community

1382
00:56:21,110 --> 00:56:17,310
at risk but you're still prepared to

1383
00:56:23,180 --> 00:56:21,120
take the 200 bucks course that's like no

1384
00:56:26,990 --> 00:56:23,190
brainer I just want to make one final

1385
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:27,000
point before I explode yes it's

1386
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:29,370
interesting to me that the people the

1387
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:30,720
likes of the Australian vaccination

1388
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:32,850
network and Meryl Dorie and I be extend

1389
00:56:36,580 --> 00:56:34,140
a big shout out to you Meryl

1390
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:36,590
congratulations on your work this week

1391
00:56:42,290 --> 00:56:39,810
they never mentioned that they also get

1392
00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:42,300
this $200 pay out there always carrying

1393
00:56:45,650 --> 00:56:44,220
on about how it's you know a big farmer

1394
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:45,660
conspiracy and like you said a guy

1395
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:47,490
sitting on a on a decking with a bit of

1396
00:56:52,220 --> 00:56:49,890
weight in his mouth and it will get onto

1397
00:56:55,610 --> 00:56:52,230
that anyway okay yeah it's in my opinion

1398
00:56:56,810 --> 00:56:55,620
is it's purely hypocritical that all

1399
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:56,820
they ever do is carry on about the

1400
00:56:59,930 --> 00:56:58,290
financial incentives but they're also

1401
00:57:01,370 --> 00:56:59,940
getting the financial incentives if they

1402
00:57:03,980 --> 00:57:01,380
sign a stupid piece of paper and say I

1403
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:03,990
refuse to do it so you know have a

1404
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:06,240
little bit of ethics anti-vaxxers if you

1405
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:07,890
really hate magazines that much don't

1406
00:57:12,170 --> 00:57:09,930
take the 200 bucks in fixing their

1407
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:12,180
devices and just one final point I know

1408
00:57:16,070 --> 00:57:14,850
I said that before but also

1409
00:57:17,570 --> 00:57:16,080
I will say that the two hundred dollars

1410
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:17,580
is for the parents well do you know that

1411
00:57:22,820 --> 00:57:19,110
not all vaccines in this country for

1412
00:57:25,340 --> 00:57:22,830
children are free for example chickenpox

1413
00:57:27,830 --> 00:57:25,350
is not considered on the PBS which is

1414
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:27,840
the pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme which

1415
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:30,090
means it's free it costs two hundred

1416
00:57:33,830 --> 00:57:32,490
dollars together so parents who get this

1417
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,840
two hundred dollars are not going to the

1418
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,280
local club and spending it on the poker

1419
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,200
machines they're probably spending it on

1420
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:38,640
getting their kids vaccinated for

1421
00:57:46,340 --> 00:57:41,490
chickenpox so that's all I've got to say

1422
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:46,350
so I'm cranky I don't blame you so it's

1423
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:50,070
a really sad story and and this was

1424
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,570
predicted of course when when

1425
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:53,760
vaccination rates dropped after you know

1426
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:55,050
in the time since Andrew Wakefield

1427
00:58:00,740 --> 00:57:56,970
released the report and it was predicted

1428
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:00,750
that diseases like measles and that's

1429
00:58:03,490 --> 00:58:02,250
what they will become endemic again and

1430
00:58:06,890 --> 00:58:03,500
it's happened it's happened in Britain

1431
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:06,900
and it's it's happened in this really

1432
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:09,810
tragic case and I mean this is just this

1433
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:12,450
is what really surely this fires at

1434
00:58:15,530 --> 00:58:13,950
homeless slaps you in the face doesn't

1435
00:58:17,690 --> 00:58:15,540
know I mean can you imagine those

1436
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:17,700
parents heartbreak yeah yeah but just

1437
00:58:22,850 --> 00:58:21,210
remembers Dave the signal is noticing it

1438
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:22,860
I was actually I had a gig last night in

1439
00:58:28,700 --> 00:58:25,290
Newtown and the drum media did bill me

1440
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:28,710
as Dave the singer I was about to say

1441
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:30,930
his day was saying before his name was

1442
00:58:35,810 --> 00:58:33,570
saying before the anti-vaxxers will

1443
00:58:38,540 --> 00:58:35,820
rationalize anything there like psychics

1444
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:38,550
when they fail a test yeah they will

1445
00:58:42,860 --> 00:58:40,740
simply rationalize leagues and all the

1446
00:58:45,020 --> 00:58:42,870
excuses come pouring out I mean your

1447
00:58:46,610 --> 00:58:45,030
website X is called the skeptics buku

1448
00:58:49,570 --> 00:58:46,620
buku because somebody once said that

1449
00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:49,580
skeptics always have an excuse but

1450
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:52,920
compared to the cop outs and lame

1451
00:58:57,530 --> 00:58:55,680
excuses from psychics and the

1452
00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:57,540
anti-vaccine have the same two other

1453
00:59:00,670 --> 00:58:58,250
thing

1454
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:00,680
I think we I think it's part of human

1455
00:59:04,420 --> 00:59:03,110
nature to do that i founded Lee and

1456
00:59:06,070 --> 00:59:04,430
that's one of the most important things

1457
00:59:08,860 --> 00:59:06,080
about the The Skeptical isn't that we

1458
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:08,870
encourage people to to question even

1459
00:59:14,380 --> 00:59:11,030
though their own beliefs i merely we're

1460
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:14,390
all pro vaccinations but that's only

1461
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:16,130
because i've done the research exactly

1462
00:59:20,580 --> 00:59:18,530
exactly and we I mean there's plenty of

1463
00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:20,590
times I've had to change my mind because

1464
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:22,940
at least you're incapable of it like

1465
00:59:27,490 --> 00:59:25,520
that yeah all I mean it's not it's not

1466
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:27,500
just the true believers yeah who should

1467
00:59:30,130 --> 00:59:28,880
be questioning level we all should be

1468
00:59:31,780 --> 00:59:30,140
doing this we are eating reeses

1469
00:59:34,350 --> 00:59:31,790
everything certain things I take for

1470
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:34,360
granted which may be based on shaky

1471
00:59:39,730 --> 00:59:37,730
shaky premise that's natural everyone

1472
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:39,740
does that but I think where we hopefully

1473
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:42,050
have the advantages that we're able to

1474
00:59:47,710 --> 00:59:44,510
look at the contrary evidence and if

1475
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:47,720
it's compelling yeah we change our view

1476
00:59:55,420 --> 00:59:52,130
put aside the fact that whatever view

1477
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:55,430
we've held before me being wrong or if

1478
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:56,690
somebody asks as a challenging question

1479
01:00:00,640 --> 00:59:58,010
that we don't know the answer so that

1480
01:00:03,010 --> 01:00:00,650
our instinct is not to to tell them to

1481
01:00:04,090 --> 01:00:03,020
get lost but to say of us that's kind of

1482
01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:04,100
interesting I'd never thought about that

1483
01:00:08,590 --> 01:00:06,710
let me go away and yeah and figure that

1484
01:00:12,220 --> 01:00:08,600
out isn't that funny yeah i mean i find

1485
01:00:13,990 --> 01:00:12,230
myself more often than maybe more not

1486
01:00:15,580 --> 01:00:14,000
more often than not but often I find

1487
01:00:18,820 --> 01:00:15,590
myself during the day saying I don't

1488
01:00:21,850 --> 01:00:18,830
know I'll have to go find out but the

1489
01:00:24,490 --> 01:00:21,860
natural instinct is to even if you don't

1490
01:00:25,870 --> 01:00:24,500
know to make up something to rationalize

1491
01:00:27,550 --> 01:00:25,880
something clearly in your head and say

1492
01:00:30,100 --> 01:00:27,560
well it probably works like this even if

1493
01:00:31,690 --> 01:00:30,110
you don't have a bloody clue I find

1494
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:31,700
myself doing it I stopped doing that a

1495
01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:32,930
number of years ago but you know what I

1496
01:00:37,210 --> 01:00:34,790
had to make a conscious decision to stop

1497
01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:37,220
doing yeah I did yeah I just you put

1498
01:00:40,420 --> 01:00:38,600
things together in your mind well it

1499
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:40,430
probably works like this father yeah I

1500
01:00:44,860 --> 01:00:42,290
started saying I don't know go on ask

1501
01:00:46,780 --> 01:00:44,870
somebody else mm-hmm he probably does

1502
01:00:48,820 --> 01:00:46,790
know all right let me changes or

1503
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:48,830
anything a bit happier I was just about

1504
01:00:53,069 --> 01:00:50,970
to say let me change so fairy listen

1505
01:00:55,730 --> 01:00:53,079
completely let me change the subject

1506
01:00:58,829 --> 01:00:55,740
completely now on the past weekend

1507
01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:58,839
Rachel rubbish segue let me change this

1508
01:01:03,390 --> 01:01:00,400
is the artist segue here was brilliant

1509
01:01:08,370 --> 01:01:03,400
thank God I don't try i did what you are

1510
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:08,380
trying yes they say um Rachel done lock

1511
01:01:13,470 --> 01:01:11,440
myself and Dave the happy senior we're

1512
01:01:16,620 --> 01:01:13,480
all together in the Sydney gay and

1513
01:01:19,859 --> 01:01:16,630
lesbian Mardi Gras now I am don't

1514
01:01:21,509 --> 01:01:19,869
hesitate to say we were there for you

1515
01:01:24,299 --> 01:01:21,519
and i were there for the secular party

1516
01:01:25,890 --> 01:01:24,309
yeah i was an official photographer you

1517
01:01:28,289 --> 01:01:25,900
were carrying a banner and dave was

1518
01:01:30,779 --> 01:01:28,299
playing his guitar with you I was with

1519
01:01:35,309 --> 01:01:30,789
the Sydney queer atheists which is the

1520
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:35,319
LGBT a section of the the Sydney atheist

1521
01:01:40,740 --> 01:01:38,529
transsexual and lesbian gay bisexual and

1522
01:01:43,859 --> 01:01:40,750
transgender all group was

1523
01:01:46,109 --> 01:01:43,869
particularly fun because they were

1524
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:46,119
running around little buses little

1525
01:01:49,710 --> 01:01:48,640
atheist vs like yeah because I mean

1526
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:49,720
we've talked about this on the tank

1527
01:01:53,130 --> 01:01:52,089
before about the fact that in Australia

1528
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:53,140
we weren't allowed to get a bus

1529
01:01:59,940 --> 01:01:55,690
advertising the way that has been done

1530
01:02:02,670 --> 01:01:59,950
in Britain and other places so we say I

1531
01:02:05,940 --> 01:02:02,680
say we I I was disgraceful and not

1532
01:02:07,259 --> 01:02:05,950
helping but the the Sydney queer atheist

1533
01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:07,269
said well sorry we'll make our own

1534
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:09,640
bosses and they make costumes get long

1535
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:13,839
kind of cardboard bus costumes with you

1536
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:15,609
know freethought friend be slogans on

1537
01:02:20,339 --> 01:02:18,490
the you know and and they paraded in

1538
01:02:22,109 --> 01:02:20,349
buses and I just turned up in my stage

1539
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:22,119
costume with my guitar waving and

1540
01:02:29,859 --> 01:02:24,079
hugging hills and stuff

1541
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:29,869
oh yes kisses was loose it was really

1542
01:02:35,289 --> 01:02:32,569
fun to be in the parade and much

1543
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:35,299
including thousands and thousands of

1544
01:02:39,789 --> 01:02:36,890
people on either side of the street

1545
01:02:43,059 --> 01:02:39,799
wasn't that great oh it was a loser buzz

1546
01:02:44,650 --> 01:02:43,069
it was it was fabulous yeah we were with

1547
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:44,660
the circular party as you mentioned but

1548
01:02:48,670 --> 01:02:47,119
we were with the popemobile yes we're

1549
01:02:51,370 --> 01:02:48,680
jealousness may have heard about before

1550
01:02:54,459 --> 01:02:51,380
it was designed by our friend Ian for

1551
01:02:56,620 --> 01:02:54,469
World Youth Day yeah and he designed a

1552
01:02:58,749 --> 01:02:56,630
fake boatmobile with a fake poop inside

1553
01:03:01,239 --> 01:02:58,759
it this this time it's on it what does

1554
01:03:03,370 --> 01:03:01,249
it Annihilus well it was a fake poke it

1555
01:03:06,759 --> 01:03:03,380
was when it was a real blast and it was

1556
01:03:08,499 --> 01:03:06,769
a very own president of the New South

1557
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:08,509
Wales skeptic speed about it otherwise

1558
01:03:13,959 --> 01:03:11,930
known as right bag to rat bags Tom you

1559
01:03:16,059 --> 01:03:13,969
sitting up there is the poker and he had

1560
01:03:19,719 --> 01:03:16,069
a ball didn't he I think he is I think

1561
01:03:23,049 --> 01:03:19,729
he's found is she that was an uncanny

1562
01:03:25,420 --> 01:03:23,059
likeness it was when he doesn't mean the

1563
01:03:27,249 --> 01:03:25,430
mitral mother and the roci eight did

1564
01:03:29,439 --> 01:03:27,259
look he was one of the hair and I'm

1565
01:03:37,420 --> 01:03:29,449
essentially papal you want to see a

1566
01:03:39,489 --> 01:03:37,430
video of ratbag head to ratbags dot-com

1567
01:03:41,859 --> 01:03:39,499
and there there it is it was good fun it

1568
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:41,869
was just beautiful it was a long walk

1569
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:42,850
home

1570
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:45,970
yeah it was and mrs. up let me mention i

1571
01:03:49,020 --> 01:03:47,710
when i turned up i didn't realize i

1572
01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:49,030
would be doing the march i thought i

1573
01:03:52,740 --> 01:03:50,470
might just be sitting on the back of the

1574
01:03:55,860 --> 01:03:52,750
Ute taking photos so i wore ridiculous

1575
01:03:59,760 --> 01:03:55,870
shoes are you or pick up sorry i sneaked

1576
01:04:02,220 --> 01:03:59,770
up and pick up a lorry only UK I don't

1577
01:04:05,340 --> 01:04:02,230
know welcome pick up the intro captured

1578
01:04:07,830 --> 01:04:05,350
so I wore ridiculous shoes which fell

1579
01:04:09,540 --> 01:04:07,840
apart which I bought in common garden in

1580
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:09,550
about nineteen ninety-seven and they

1581
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:10,960
sort of you know they glow in the dark

1582
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:11,920
etcetera but they're not really

1583
01:04:18,420 --> 01:04:15,310
appropriate and garden veggie yes yes as

1584
01:04:20,910 --> 01:04:18,430
Shelley's in common garden and of course

1585
01:04:23,070 --> 01:04:20,920
they disintegrated halfway through the

1586
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:23,080
parade and so I had to signal to Richard

1587
01:04:26,430 --> 01:04:25,210
to come over and I just kicks them off

1588
01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:26,440
and he had to put them in the back of

1589
01:04:33,090 --> 01:04:30,310
the pickup most of the parade in bare

1590
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:33,100
feet I did and then I long walk back to

1591
01:04:37,500 --> 01:04:35,890
the train station in their fees and then

1592
01:04:39,630 --> 01:04:37,510
when we couldn't get a train we got a

1593
01:04:41,220 --> 01:04:39,640
pass in there along from the bus station

1594
01:04:44,910 --> 01:04:41,230
to your place cuz they caught the wrong

1595
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:44,920
bus oh yeah yeah I was in a lot of pain

1596
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:48,130
but sure so I suffered I said I love the

1597
01:04:52,380 --> 01:04:50,170
fact that they seem to pull all the

1598
01:04:54,630 --> 01:04:52,390
religious theme floats together in one

1599
01:04:56,580 --> 01:04:54,640
block so it was including the Raelians

1600
01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:56,590
there was yeah there was the the sisters

1601
01:04:59,730 --> 01:04:58,330
of perpetual indulgence were there then

1602
01:05:01,170 --> 01:04:59,740
there was three it was you guys with the

1603
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:01,180
popemobile to the Metropolitan Community

1604
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:04,090
churches yeah then there's the Sydney

1605
01:05:10,260 --> 01:05:06,720
atheists then there was the the Raelians

1606
01:05:11,790 --> 01:05:10,270
English i won no oh no they were at it's

1607
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:11,800
all free love I don't even think the

1608
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:13,510
believer UFO thing really i think it's

1609
01:05:19,230 --> 01:05:16,210
just my excuse to get this alone a

1610
01:05:21,090 --> 01:05:19,240
lot of flash beach oh yeah Paul's

1611
01:05:22,830 --> 01:05:21,100
involved there's a little bit of flesh

1612
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:22,840
being choked by the atheist hammer oh

1613
01:05:28,050 --> 01:05:25,330
but there was not not me listeners

1614
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:28,060
you'll be released him over I can hear

1615
01:05:32,850 --> 01:05:31,570
kept myself impeccably clothes but then

1616
01:05:36,450 --> 01:05:32,860
there was another Christian group and

1617
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:36,460
then there was the the Sydney Jewish gay

1618
01:05:38,690 --> 01:05:37,930
community with that as well with the big

1619
01:05:41,060 --> 01:05:38,700
thing started

1620
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:41,070
and it was the vibe night and when we

1621
01:05:45,710 --> 01:05:43,950
were setting it was really friendly and

1622
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:45,720
really a key medical and it was just

1623
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:47,010
really nice you know we the groups were

1624
01:05:51,410 --> 01:05:49,050
getting photos with his music all the

1625
01:05:53,420 --> 01:05:51,420
time would we also use it for three

1626
01:05:56,329 --> 01:05:53,430
hours in the waiting area before the

1627
01:05:58,099 --> 01:05:56,339
floods went on and it was constantly

1628
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:58,109
pumping music it was like a little party

1629
01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:00,480
before we enough wasn't yeah it was we

1630
01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:02,390
were next to the virgin airline

1631
01:06:07,849 --> 01:06:05,310
absolutely yea which was packed with

1632
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:07,859
really attractive looking oh wow what

1633
01:06:17,839 --> 01:06:15,599
always and go certainly was oh hey oh

1634
01:06:19,970 --> 01:06:17,849
but it wasn't one that I've been a

1635
01:06:23,420 --> 01:06:19,980
wonderful party oh yeah it was here

1636
01:06:26,510 --> 01:06:23,430
brilliant it was pretty great time know

1637
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:26,520
what it was I just wanted to I was gonna

1638
01:06:30,890 --> 01:06:28,650
segue into this earlier but you beat me

1639
01:06:33,020 --> 01:06:30,900
oh your fame and fortune are your

1640
01:06:34,670 --> 01:06:33,030
favorite well sort of I mean you were

1641
01:06:38,089 --> 01:06:34,680
mentioning my blog at the skeptics book

1642
01:06:40,190 --> 01:06:38,099
seppuku earlier and I found to my

1643
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:40,200
surprise this morning I usually sleep

1644
01:06:43,609 --> 01:06:42,000
with my laptop next to my bed and I wake

1645
01:06:46,460 --> 01:06:43,619
up in the morning bleary-eyed and just

1646
01:06:49,099 --> 01:06:46,470
see what's new well okay confession time

1647
01:06:51,859 --> 01:06:49,109
I usually sleep with my ipod because i

1648
01:06:54,430 --> 01:06:51,869
put in a podcast or i'm listening to

1649
01:06:57,170 --> 01:06:54,440
tony hancock of the moment real army

1650
01:06:58,910 --> 01:06:57,180
love Tony it's not so good I just fall

1651
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:58,920
asleep this is tony hancock i'm really

1652
01:07:03,380 --> 01:07:01,680
enjoying it so i woke up at whatever

1653
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:03,390
held clock in the morning and I'm

1654
01:07:07,579 --> 01:07:05,250
bleary-eyed but I have got enough middle

1655
01:07:10,819 --> 01:07:07,589
energy to press a few buttons on my ipod

1656
01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:10,829
the check emails it first of all that's

1657
01:07:14,359 --> 01:07:13,020
exactly what I do it's funny if we

1658
01:07:16,790 --> 01:07:14,369
should say Tony Hong coming with the

1659
01:07:20,450 --> 01:07:16,800
greatest anti-scientific empty medicine

1660
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:20,460
lines in the history of comedy is after

1661
01:07:25,130 --> 01:07:23,010
he's just got a his donating blood and

1662
01:07:26,780 --> 01:07:25,140
the blood donors show and he gets he

1663
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:26,790
gets his finger prick so we can test it

1664
01:07:29,569 --> 01:07:28,290
for his blood type and whatnot and he

1665
01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:29,579
says well thank you very much in the say

1666
01:07:32,930 --> 01:07:31,260
but this is just a smear enemies as well

1667
01:07:35,150 --> 01:07:32,940
and maybe just a smear to you but it's

1668
01:07:36,859 --> 01:07:35,160
life or death to see larger how much do

1669
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:36,869
you want and the doctors as well a pint

1670
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:39,839
of course honey times out pines have you

1671
01:07:42,500 --> 01:07:41,760
gone raving mad I don't mind giving a

1672
01:07:48,490 --> 01:07:42,510
reasonable amount

1673
01:07:53,660 --> 01:07:51,380
racist it's lines ever delivered I'm

1674
01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:53,670
sorry I can we go sorry oh yeah nice

1675
01:07:56,900 --> 01:07:55,710
home it's blood listeners unless

1676
01:07:59,060 --> 01:07:56,910
you're British in which case you're not

1677
01:08:01,010 --> 01:07:59,070
allowed I know because my own a house

1678
01:08:02,390 --> 01:08:01,020
making yeah oh look there's cross-eyed

1679
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:02,400
now what's right are you all right did

1680
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:06,210
you know Susie I got mad cow disease who

1681
01:08:11,540 --> 01:08:08,010
the hell would know I just about to say

1682
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:11,550
please give blood listeners anyway as I

1683
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:13,170
was saying I wake up blurry eyed and I

1684
01:08:16,670 --> 01:08:15,510
just you know open up my laptop and just

1685
01:08:18,019 --> 01:08:16,680
check what's happened overnight what

1686
01:08:21,260 --> 01:08:18,029
have I missed I've been asleep for six

1687
01:08:25,010 --> 01:08:21,270
hours and this morning Ben Goldacre had

1688
01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:25,020
posted another blog which was a clip

1689
01:08:29,780 --> 01:08:26,910
from a show he did on Monday night on

1690
01:08:31,340 --> 01:08:29,790
ITV in London called London tonight and

1691
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:31,350
it was a summary of what happened with

1692
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:33,210
the Jenny Barnett lbc affair the whole

1693
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:35,370
thing with you know the lawyers coming

1694
01:08:39,530 --> 01:08:37,370
up to him and then the bloggers

1695
01:08:41,570 --> 01:08:39,540
transcribing it and then you know the

1696
01:08:44,809 --> 01:08:41,580
following day they're 150 blogs and have

1697
01:08:47,030 --> 01:08:44,819
done it up everybody knows his story and

1698
01:08:48,530 --> 01:08:47,040
if you don't is a an article about it in

1699
01:08:49,820 --> 01:08:48,540
this month's skeptic magazine which

1700
01:08:52,519 --> 01:08:49,830
other your joke about later Richard

1701
01:08:54,740 --> 01:08:52,529
liked you anyway I was just watching

1702
01:08:57,170 --> 01:08:54,750
this clip and at the point where Ben

1703
01:09:01,130 --> 01:08:57,180
gets to the blogs that hosted the

1704
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:01,140
transcript he showed my blog which I was

1705
01:09:05,599 --> 01:09:03,930
very impressed on the TV yeah you can

1706
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:05,609
head to skeptics with the Google Drive

1707
01:09:09,710 --> 01:09:08,279
yeah it did yeah and the because I wrote

1708
01:09:11,539 --> 01:09:09,720
quite a few posts about that and I also

1709
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:11,549
hosted one of the parts of the

1710
01:09:15,849 --> 01:09:14,130
transcript now I have to say I did not

1711
01:09:18,110 --> 01:09:15,859
have anything to do with transcribing it

1712
01:09:20,780 --> 01:09:18,120
because I don't want to take credit for

1713
01:09:22,849 --> 01:09:20,790
that I didn't all I did was offer to

1714
01:09:24,530 --> 01:09:22,859
host a section of its so someone else

1715
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:24,540
did that for me I won't pretend I didn't

1716
01:09:30,769 --> 01:09:28,170
I did that but I also wrote quite a lot

1717
01:09:32,599 --> 01:09:30,779
of post leading up to that I thought Ben

1718
01:09:35,599 --> 01:09:32,609
Goldacre came over very well in that

1719
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:35,609
same yeah if people wanted to see that

1720
01:09:39,860 --> 01:09:37,410
the video we're talking about good with

1721
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:39,870
Ben Goldacre slog just mad science don't

1722
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:42,210
net it's also on YouTube and if you want

1723
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,440
to see Rachel's blog you'll find it

1724
01:09:47,150 --> 01:09:45,359
linked to paper happy singer calm yeah

1725
01:09:50,090 --> 01:09:47,160
yeah and you'll find my blog at a

1726
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,100
skeptics book calm anybody else to see

1727
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:52,080
is anybody else oh well actually if you

1728
01:09:55,580 --> 01:09:53,970
type in que hace it's still finds it for

1729
01:09:57,290 --> 01:09:55,590
you Oh wonderful I mean I spell it with

1730
01:09:58,820 --> 01:09:57,300
the same the guy over there in the

1731
01:10:03,230 --> 01:09:58,830
morning wants to come over in primaries

1732
01:10:04,370 --> 01:10:03,240
blog Odie's or should we just walk

1733
01:10:06,740 --> 01:10:04,380
around the club and see anything I was

1734
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:06,750
gonna blog yeah hey if you like podcasts

1735
01:10:11,420 --> 01:10:08,610
listen to the Sydney atheist podcast

1736
01:10:13,670 --> 01:10:11,430
critical mass now Dave what's that

1737
01:10:15,470 --> 01:10:13,680
magazine you have in your hand oh I've

1738
01:10:19,130 --> 01:10:15,480
got this wonderful new magazine it's

1739
01:10:21,860 --> 01:10:19,140
brilliant it's beautiful it's it's me 90

1740
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:21,870
it's blue and shiny and it's wonderfully

1741
01:10:25,810 --> 01:10:24,090
designed it it's satisfying the thick

1742
01:10:29,090 --> 01:10:25,820
you know when you buy a magazine that's

1743
01:10:30,590 --> 01:10:29,100
that's just flimsy there's no

1744
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:30,600
advertising in there or next to no

1745
01:10:35,060 --> 01:10:33,360
advertising in there and it's just it's

1746
01:10:37,490 --> 01:10:35,070
beautifully laid out and it's wonderful

1747
01:10:42,130 --> 01:10:37,500
and it's the first issue of their newly

1748
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:42,140
redesigned and reinvent revamped and and

1749
01:10:47,370 --> 01:10:46,250
reinvigorated and re excited and

1750
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:47,380
reanimated

1751
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:51,130
yes and a conditioned and re staff sold

1752
01:10:56,879 --> 01:10:54,400
and the skeptic the Australian the

1753
01:11:02,280 --> 01:10:56,889
skeptic now yeah luckily rolana winning

1754
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:02,290
started ww skeptics calm day you and you

1755
01:11:07,860 --> 01:11:05,370
to business can subscribe to our

1756
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:07,870
magazine called miss get bigger

1757
01:11:12,540 --> 01:11:10,210
featuring such people as yourself

1758
01:11:14,220 --> 01:11:12,550
Richard and dr. Murray to be myself and

1759
01:11:16,140 --> 01:11:14,230
dr. Karen stalls no he's another

1760
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:16,150
reporter for his own and the accursed

1761
01:11:22,290 --> 01:11:19,690
urges and condescension closes Michael

1762
01:11:24,689 --> 01:11:22,300
wala Han he's written article and Stefan

1763
01:11:26,220 --> 01:11:24,699
Soyka definitely a lovely guy at the

1764
01:11:28,740 --> 01:11:26,230
beginning in the end of hope so the

1765
01:11:30,540 --> 01:11:28,750
amount and now that just leaves Dave the

1766
01:11:32,820 --> 01:11:30,550
happy singer where's the country and

1767
01:11:35,939 --> 01:11:32,830
why's your graduation day um I come

1768
01:11:39,209 --> 01:11:35,949
right you can't oh that's a fib you of

1769
01:11:41,930 --> 01:11:39,219
course i can write Cena you can see my

1770
01:11:44,490 --> 01:11:41,940
blog i saw a picture of you oh dear on

1771
01:11:55,050 --> 01:11:44,500
skeptics comden i was young i needed the

1772
01:11:56,580 --> 01:11:55,060
money name that movie the movie o.o that

1773
01:12:00,479 --> 01:11:56,590
i was young and needed the money heart

1774
01:12:02,879 --> 01:12:00,489
donor I could gun was it make it come

1775
01:12:04,770 --> 01:12:02,889
anyway all right skeptics got got conned

1776
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:04,780
are you at the moment if listeners go

1777
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:06,610
then you can see pictures of Dave the

1778
01:12:11,970 --> 01:12:09,130
happy singer singing to us at skeptics

1779
01:12:13,530 --> 01:12:11,980
in the pub oh yeah yeah I star got

1780
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:13,540
skeptics in the purple which is on our

1781
01:12:18,169 --> 01:12:15,850
last podcasters reasons would know yes

1782
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:18,179
vanilla that you can never be you can I

1783
01:12:22,860 --> 01:12:20,770
thought scenarios actually I listen back

1784
01:12:25,919 --> 01:12:22,870
to that and all you can all I can hear

1785
01:12:32,140 --> 01:12:29,200
hyperventilating cuz it oh I'm glad

1786
01:12:33,340 --> 01:12:32,150
you're sure I'm glad your dreams yay you

1787
01:12:35,890 --> 01:12:33,350
did include the bit where I got the

1788
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:35,900
suggestions to me yeah yeah of course I

1789
01:12:39,939 --> 01:12:37,250
would know that because I've listened to

1790
01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:39,949
last week due to the skeptics day I do

1791
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:42,550
listen to it but I'm a little bit higher

1792
01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:44,810
the problem is there are so many good

1793
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:46,550
skeptic podcasts out there with you know

1794
01:12:50,740 --> 01:12:49,489
SGU and skeptical allathee and the

1795
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:50,750
pseudo-scientists and Melbourne of

1796
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:54,290
courses and sceptile and a point of

1797
01:12:59,530 --> 01:12:56,810
inquiry inquiring DJ Grothe hello DJ I

1798
01:13:01,000 --> 01:12:59,540
love DJ did kind of inquiries one reason

1799
01:13:03,729 --> 01:13:01,010
he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever

1800
01:13:05,979 --> 01:13:03,739
meet he's a gallery is he's always

1801
01:13:07,450 --> 01:13:05,989
struck me as a split lended no that's a

1802
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:07,460
great point a big hello to all our

1803
01:13:12,580 --> 01:13:10,310
colleagues SG you skipped akala d Brian

1804
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,590
Dunning hi Brian can we can we give a

1805
01:13:15,700 --> 01:13:14,480
shout out to someone that befriended you

1806
01:13:17,919 --> 01:13:15,710
this week because one of my favorite

1807
01:13:20,650 --> 01:13:17,929
podcast is Friday night comedy now I

1808
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:20,660
believe yeah I heard this that Mitch

1809
01:13:24,430 --> 01:13:22,730
been accepted your friend request is

1810
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:24,440
that right this has been ongoing for a

1811
01:13:29,260 --> 01:13:26,810
while where of alpha and Jason who's

1812
01:13:30,729 --> 01:13:29,270
also on critical mass podcast it's

1813
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:30,739
friends with Mitch been on facebook and

1814
01:13:33,700 --> 01:13:31,850
i was very jealous because he hadn't i

1815
01:13:35,950 --> 01:13:33,710
accepted but you did

1816
01:13:40,630 --> 01:13:35,960
this is me skeptical at all but no I

1817
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:40,640
know yes I'm friendly I love I listened

1818
01:13:43,810 --> 01:13:42,050
to every suddenly more the first thing I

1819
01:13:47,290 --> 01:13:43,820
do is download Friday night comedy ratio

1820
01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:47,300
oh yeah honestly the skeptic magazine is

1821
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:49,760
just I'm really really looking forward

1822
01:13:54,370 --> 01:13:52,130
to getting my teeth others thank you

1823
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:54,380
this is really perhaps I could just read

1824
01:13:59,650 --> 01:13:57,050
out my star sign for the sneeze do this

1825
01:14:01,680 --> 01:13:59,660
I'm a Libra this month yes the new

1826
01:14:04,330 --> 01:14:01,690
skeptic magazine has star signs

1827
01:14:09,900 --> 01:14:04,340
astrology I'm a Libra which makes me

1828
01:14:16,930 --> 01:14:14,170
yeah be sure to be sure before you are

1829
01:14:19,209 --> 01:14:16,940
sure of your next move leave nothing to

1830
01:14:22,540 --> 01:14:19,219
chance which means you'll just have to

1831
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:22,550
cheat to help you cheat go and see your

1832
01:14:27,670 --> 01:14:25,070
local psychic and ask them what the net

1833
01:14:30,610 --> 01:14:27,680
to winning lotto numbers will be pleased

1834
01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:30,620
when you find out let me know that

1835
01:14:36,459 --> 01:14:32,950
slander isn't it that's right my

1836
01:14:39,370 --> 01:14:36,469
astrologer dr. dois fika do a peak after

1837
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:39,380
which of course is fake fraud backwards

1838
01:14:47,260 --> 01:14:43,370
oh it's not yes yes it is that I'm damn

1839
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:47,270
good at this week well thanks Dave I'm

1840
01:14:51,130 --> 01:14:49,280
glad you enjoy the magazine a lot of

1841
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:51,140
efforts gone into that listeners I think

1842
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:53,360
you will enjoy it it is a fantastic

1843
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:55,930
manager what's that Scientology

1844
01:15:01,209 --> 01:14:57,770
Scientology in the Travolta drudgery

1845
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:01,219
Barry by my koala and reporting michael

1846
01:15:06,070 --> 01:15:03,650
well yeah it's nautical yeah the story

1847
01:15:09,729 --> 01:15:06,080
of jett travolta there's an a major

1848
01:15:11,950 --> 01:15:09,739
picture oh sounds like run to our

1849
01:15:13,450 --> 01:15:11,960
skeptics don't condone a you and please

1850
01:15:15,130 --> 01:15:13,460
subscribe to our magazine I think you

1851
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:15,140
really enjoyed I think you really will

1852
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:17,210
oh they vary by right chief oh there's a

1853
01:15:22,430 --> 01:15:19,250
doctor AG story and the giant i note i'm

1854
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:22,440
a picture i would

1855
01:15:27,990 --> 01:15:26,050
Jennifer to try and stinky butt and well

1856
01:15:29,490 --> 01:15:28,000
it was what a fantastic thing tank this

1857
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:29,500
has been I really love these sessions

1858
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:32,050
and I'd like to thank our special guest

1859
01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:34,690
as ever Dave they're happy singer thank

1860
01:15:40,410 --> 01:15:37,630
you and I think we know your website by

1861
01:15:41,970 --> 01:15:40,420
now it's at Dave the happy singer calm

1862
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:41,980
please come and see a show I feel like

1863
01:15:45,690 --> 01:15:43,810
I'm playing at the sandringham on the

1864
01:15:47,220 --> 01:15:45,700
25th in Newtown in Sydney if you want to

1865
01:15:51,450 --> 01:15:47,230
come to that Sonny five books and I'm

1866
01:15:54,300 --> 01:15:51,460
very for me yeah so we've been told ya

1867
01:15:55,890 --> 01:15:54,310
Rachel thank you Richard dr. H and thank

1868
01:15:57,690 --> 01:15:55,900
you for your doctor a cheerleader on in

1869
01:16:00,600 --> 01:15:57,700
the show that's why doesn't your gary

1870
01:16:04,230 --> 01:16:00,610
Stein it was scary stuff and until um

1871
01:16:06,150 --> 01:16:04,240
next fortnight yes until next front of

1872
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:06,160
the 30 is it another Friday the 13th

1873
01:16:30,050 --> 01:16:08,530
next month as well don't think so okay

1874
01:16:34,910 --> 01:16:31,700
thanks for listening to the show anyways

1875
01:16:36,460 --> 01:16:34,920
I promise I just was distracted you

1876
01:16:38,930 --> 01:16:36,470
flicking through some sort of a

1877
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:38,940
publication I am this I've got in front

1878
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:40,890
of me the new copy of the skeptic

1879
01:16:48,230 --> 01:16:43,710
magazine from Australia volume 21 no

1880
01:16:51,220 --> 01:16:48,240
volume 29 number 14 March 2009 and there

1881
01:16:54,380 --> 01:16:51,230
it ended up to the mark Pavelich

1882
01:16:56,150 --> 01:16:54,390
obviously it's it looks fabulous it

1883
01:16:59,320 --> 01:16:56,160
looks really good yeah lots of stories

1884
01:17:01,910 --> 01:16:59,330
Nigerian scams round TV Close Encounters

1885
01:17:03,860 --> 01:17:01,920
kleptomaniac softer 'he dr. rage in the

1886
01:17:06,020 --> 01:17:03,870
detox diets it's a it's a huge one

1887
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:06,030
including an advertisement for your

1888
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:09,120
wonderful 123 gut flush that product is

1889
01:17:12,860 --> 01:17:10,800
going exceptionally well since--since

1890
01:17:15,050 --> 01:17:12,870
was broadcast on the the skeptic zone

1891
01:17:17,060 --> 01:17:15,060
I've just been inundated with inquiries

1892
01:17:19,580 --> 01:17:17,070
well that combined with your new

1893
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:19,590
weight-loss program ah it's yeah I'm

1894
01:17:24,430 --> 01:17:20,970
telling myself into it like an

1895
01:17:26,990 --> 01:17:24,440
alternative medicine Empire its glorious

1896
01:17:28,730 --> 01:17:27,000
well thanks again Richard another great

1897
01:17:31,010 --> 01:17:28,740
show and I guess we'll be back again

1898
01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:31,020
soon yeah I'll see you in two weeks but

1899
01:17:34,700 --> 01:17:32,550
everybody tune in again next week for

1900
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:34,710
another special starring people I can't

1901
01:17:39,170 --> 01:17:36,930
even imagine but it'll be good at all if

1902
01:17:41,060 --> 01:17:39,180
the psychics will know will consult them

1903
01:17:45,820 --> 01:17:41,070
all that's a good idea well we'll see

1904
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:47,860
you've been listening to the skeptic

1905
01:17:55,660 --> 01:17:51,890
zone visit her website at www skeptics

1906
01:17:58,850 --> 01:17:55,670
on TV for comments contacts and extra

1907
01:17:58,860 --> 01:18:03,009
skin